4/1/08 - On Shaky Ground?

Well things have been going good for the most part. I have had a few possible problems lately though. First a bit of backstory...

I received 10 2" Brilliant Turqs a couple weeks ago. I was supposed to get 20 fish in total, but due to some issues importing them, I only ended up with 10. (No worries, the rest will get here eventually) My original plan was to put all 20 in a 125 to grow out for awhile. Since I only got the 10 I went ahead and put them in the 125. Turns out it just was too big and scary for them. So I swapped them out with some of my melons and put them in a 40 breeder instead. They are now doing great.

The 8 melons and 2 mandarin passions then went into the 125 instead. Now you're probably saying to yourself..where's the QT? There was none. I don't generally QT anything any further than giving them their own tank.

Shortly after all this switching around, the melons developed some white/gray patches and started holding either pectoral fin against their bodies. I figured the new ones probably brought some new bugs in that irritated them. They kept eating pretty well and kept their color so I just salted them well for 5 days and they came out of it just fine.

I thought I was homefree when I noticed these same white patches appearing on the challenge fish. I went ahead with the same salt treatment for them I'd given the melons and figured all would be fine. It did seem to help but ever since the treatment ended several days ago they've been a bit pale and not real active or overly interested in eating.

To top it off, my heater went down last night and the tank was sitting at 75 today. I've got another heater in and it's slowly getting things back up, at least I hope.

So now, a few of them are kind of dark, not much interest in eating, one had a long poo, it wasn't white or anything but not really normal either.

So, I guess I will just keep an eye on them and if the warmed up water and water changes don't help them in a couple days I'll have to look into something else.

I may try to get some pics of them later tonight if they are feeling cooperative.

I feel your pains, Karen. Sheesh there for a while I felt like if it wasn't for bad luck....well you know. I hope they do come out of it all right. Best of luck and do post up some pics. I checked out your web cam to catch a sneak of the challenge fish and saw the turqs(they look good) BTW.

Wow Karen. Sorry to hear this. Good luck, please keep us posted.:(

Yeah, I figured I'd take the spotlight off the challengers for now. They're not feeling up to the task of entertaining all day. ;)

I will try to get some pics of them at waterchange tonight.

Ok, some pictures. However, this may not be a very true representation of how they're acting because normally they aren't sucking at the surface at water change time.

I think there was just some irritant in the storage water tonight or something they didn't like. Oddly though, no other tanks were effected, not even the ones that received water from the same barrels so...I don't know.

I treated the water the chloram-x so hopefully that helps. There temp was up to 81, so getting better.

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...s/DSC07968.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...s/DSC07969.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...s/DSC07970.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...s/DSC07973.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...s/DSC07985.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...s/DSC07986.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...s/DSC07994.jpg

http://i271.photobucket.com/albums/j...s/DSC07997.jpg

I've also got a short video just to illustrate how they were acting a bit better:

http://s271.photobucket.com/albums/j...t=MOV07983.flv

The 8 melons and 2 mandarin passions then went into the 125 instead. Now you're probably saying to yourself..where's the QT? There was none. I don't generally QT anything any further than giving them their own tank.

I DON'T want to be a jerk, here, Karen, but I assume from your posts that you brought in new fish with 'an issue' and now your other fish have .... the issue? Sooner or later one usually gets a visceral demonstration of why not using a strict QT regimen is like shooting yourself in the foot. The problem in your tanks certainly appears to be of the 'fixable' variety [allowing for the stress on the discus to be sick AND to potentially have to deal with medications] , but had you brought in something more virulent or resistant, you would of course risk losing some of your collection...which would really suck. You certainly have some nice looking fishies from the photos you posted--hope they are back to normal soon for you. I am posting this to help, not give you grief. Big bummer that the heater went in the middle of that--I've had that happen too.
Best regards
Harriett

Harriett-

I get what you're saying and do agree. And I should perhaps clear up what I said in my earlier post a little because it wasn't 100% accurate. In general I do have more of a QT process than what happened with the melons and Turqs. The turqs were stressed from delayed shipping and arrival and then getting acclimated to my tank. They were looking rough for a day or two and I guess I was just concerned with getting them in more comforting quarters.

It dawned on me after the tank switch had been made that "duh, I may have just made a big boo boo". Of course, I was lucky and only had a few minor issues, but it could have certainly been alot worse.

This isn't meant to be me trying to make excuses for why I did what I did, but just to make it known that after the deed had been done I certainly had a "forehead slapping" moment there. :)

It is a bummer when heaters go like that, although I have been fortunate that everytime a heater goes on me, it just stops working rather than trying to boil my fish. I'd certainly rather have them get a bit cool than too hot. *knock on wood*

Cool--it IS a pain in the butt to totally QT and I know that....I also know, sadly, what can happen in an extreme situation--my fiasco was about 7 years ago after losing 10 discus and spending hundreds on meds over a several month period where it went from bad to worse to beyond description....and I WAS QTing....'it' was airborne..and led to numerous secondary infections both fungal and bacterial, internal and external from the by then highly immune compromised fish....just don't want you to suffer this same situation. Thank God for the good samaritanship of Cary Strong or I would have lost the other 10 too..

I also had a heater stick a few years ago, but it was ON and it really was steamy fish soup...yuck.

There are a million stories in the big city, right?

Best of luck with your guys!
Harriett

Well it seems like they were doing better today. They were more interested in eating and more active. The temp is back up to 84. They aren't eating like normal but better than yesterday so I consider that a good thing.

I'm contemplating if 9 of them in a 55 is too many. I might start seeing about picking out the best 5 or 6 (#6 would be the runt because I'd like to keep the runt now as the runt always) and moving the other 3 or so out into another tank.

Karen, I think it's too many. You CAN do it, but it means massive water changes daily because the tank's going to lean closer to the edge of fouling with that many discus and the necessary food daily. If anything unintended tips the balance, you don't have wiggle room. I'd thin it out, as you were thinking...6 in there would be perfect.
Best regards
Harriett

I agree Harriett. They've been doing fine but as they're getting bigger it's about time to pick my best ones and focus on them. The rest will go in another tank and still be taken care of, of course but not as intensely as I need to focus on these guys.

I'm actually curious to see how they act being split up, they've always been all together up until now. Should be interesting.

When I have done this level of sorting, there is usually some mild freaked out behaviour for a brief period and then they get over it. Don't worry about it. Keep them in reasonably sized groups whatever tank they are going in would be the main thing. When I have gotten discus in the past [I am determined that the 25 or so I have is IT and I am NOT adding any more to the collection, so past tense], I have approached it by buying about a good 1/3 more than I wanted or ultimately had room for. Grow them out to about 4-5 inches so I can see what they are going to do, and thin them out---I developed a couple of sources who were happy to buy my high quality grade B + fish for this reason---I make my $ back and it gives me the luxury of a more refined pick....ALso, whatever I have paid, I am ruthless about not keeping discus that bug me. I have had situations where I bought 6 and kept one or two. There are always more discus out there and the overcrowding route got old in my tanks--too much work. I always just wanted to have SOME discus that I really really enjoyed and keep it at that. Now I believe I am doing it! Finally. Maybe. Probably.
Best regards
H

Well I went through them last night and picked out what I thought to be the best six, based on size and shape mostly and moved the other three out into another tank. The six left seemed unaffected, at least at that point and the other three were a bit timid and confused but I think they'll settle in just fine.

Funny how you can look at them one day and think "oh this one has ___" fill in the blank on whatever flaw you think you see, but when it comes down to picking out the best six they all suddenly look better. :D

But, I think I made good choices and I'm hoping that thinning the tank down to six will really make those six thrive.

I'll try to snap some pics of the "keepers" tonight and post them.

Harriett-
I have just really started doing what you're talking about. I have some that have been subpar for awhile and I always was thinking "oh they'll get better, they just need time" but...in general they don't and I don't have the time or money to waste on trying to raise them when in the end they probably won't be what I want to keep and work with anyway. So, I'm starting to thin the herd some. It's a nice feeling when I can take a tank out of the rotation and shut it down for awhile. :)

Karen, for me it was a good plan, since I was feeling overwhelmed and the joy element was waning--thin the number of discus to ultimately thin the number of tanks requiring WAY more evening-after-work-when I am really fried- time than I can do. I was able to clear out a whole 75. Which I promptly put a colony of rare Victorian cichlids in that I was all nuts over...minimal care, by comparison, though. I am hoping to trim down another 75 and then just run 2 discus tanks [180g and 80g]...we'll see if that happens.
Anyhow, it felt like a relief to me to get rid of the discus that I wasn't attached to.
Good luck and best regards
Harriett