Wild Discus Tech Notes 2... Wild Greens...The basics and More....

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Originally Posted by Dutch dude

I agree on what Pat wrote. As for the bars,...I happen to have a lot of fry with broken bars but this might be related to the cross of haraldi and aequifasciata. A lot of wild fish also show broken bars but they are simply not selected for the trade because fish with straight bars are more expensive. The same for the patterns and the markings,...al is selected for the trade into colour groups. There is a large change what goes as Curipera discus in the trade are actually red based Nhamunda discus. People associate red discus with Curipera so if they are willing to pay more for curipera the trade is willing to sell every red based discus as curipera. Unfortunately this is how it works.

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I have bred wild Discus off and on since 1969. All of mine have been brown or blue Symphysodon haraldi. I tried but failed to breed Greens and Heckels.
I have had many wild S. haraldi come in with "y" shaped bars and other variants as have some of their fry. I consider this to fall within the range of what is normal for wild type haraldi and aequifasciata but seems to be rarer among Heckels.
I have been friends with Dutchdude and Pat Husband for many years and we have shared discus raising notes extensively.
In fact, I was the one who convinced Dutch Dude that he would make an excellent Discus keeper/breeder and that he did become.

Hey Larry,

It has been an awful long time since you were active on the board and good to see you here.

Back to the bar thing,...a lot of myths going on in this hobby but one thing is for sure,...Y shaped and broken bars is seen in all discus, wilds, and domestics. It has nothing to do with health or genetics and is completely normal. Most breeders cull fish with broken bars or they don't show them on boards because the man made standard is straight bars.

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Originally Posted by Apistomaster

I have bred wild Discus off and on since 1969. All of mine have been brown or blue Symphysodon haraldi. I tried but failed to breed Greens and Heckels.
I have had many wild S. haraldi come in with "y" shaped bars and other variants as have some of their fry. I consider this to fall within the range of what is normal for wild type haraldi and aequifasciata but seems to be rarer among Heckels.
I have been friends with Dutchdude and Pat Husband for many years and we have shared discus raising notes extensively.
In fact, I was the one who convinced Dutch Dude that he would make an excellent Discus keeper/breeder and that he did become.

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Hey Larry, nice to see you here. It has been awhile.

My observations with broken bars in F1s (two groups of green Tefe's and two groups of Cuipeua) is the Tefe's F1s had very few bars. General one or two in the group. The Cuipeua F1s had a much larger percentage of broken bars in the two groups. This is basic-ed on personal observation only.

Hey Apisto, great to have you active again, I'm trying to learn from my first batch of green tefe and will be excited to learn from anything you share!

I appreciate the welcomes I have received.
It has been difficult for me to have to quit keeping aquariums due to my declining health issues.
I have a lifetime of experience so I am still trying to share it when I think it may help others.
No sense in reinventing the wheel when people like me may help others skip some of the most painful and expensive mistakes.
I worried some were tiring of my pontification.
I have specialized in SA Dwarf Cichlids, Killifish(well over 100 different species), Wild Angelfish, Discus, Plecos and relative plus Corydoras.
I delved into breeding some large Cichlids like Oscars, Red Devils and Jack Dempseys; mainly to produce fry to feed other fish.
I even had some reef fish spawns. My first was the Yellow Tail Blue Damselfish(Chrysiptera parasema) in 1980. Second was Mandarin Dragonet(Synchiropus splendidus)1987. Lastly, Pygmy Flame Angelfish(Centropyge loricula)1989. I only had regular spawns. I had no way of attempting to raise the larvae. In more recent years I wished to culture corals but by then I had run out of steam.
So many fish, so little time.

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Originally Posted by Apistomaster

I appreciate the welcomes I have received.
It has been difficult for me to have to quit keeping aquariums due to my declining health issues.
I have a lifetime of experience so I am still trying to share it when I think it may help others.
No sense in reinventing the wheel when people like me may help others skip some of the most painful and expensive mistakes.
I worried some were tiring of my pontification.
I have specialized in SA Dwarf Cichlids, Killifish(well over 100 different species), Wild Angelfish, Discus, Plecos and relative plus Corydoras.
I delved into breeding some large Cichlids like Oscars, Red Devils and Jack Dempseys; mainly to produce fry to feed other fish.
I even had some reef fish spawns. My first was the Yellow Tail Blue Damselfish(Chrysiptera parasema) in 1980. Second was Mandarin Dragonet(Synchiropus splendidus)1987. Lastly, Pygmy Flame Angelfish(Centropyge loricula)1989. I only had regular spawns. I had no way of attempting to raise the larvae. In more recent years I wished to culture corals but by then I had run out of steam.
So many fish, so little time.

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It had been quite a while since I had seen you on the board. Great to see you back Larry. I always tried to follow all of your posts back when I started.

Welcome back Larry, hope to see lots of interesting posts from you when you are able.
Barb

Good to hear from you Larry.
Do you at least get the chance to cast some flies in any rivers anymore.
Every time I hear your name....I think about Bev's Royal Blue's spawn and hated you when you acquired some F1's. LOL

Take care Larry,
...Ralph

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Originally Posted by Altum Nut

Good to hear from you Larry.
Do you at least get the chance to cast some flies in any rivers anymore.
Every time I hear your name....I think about Bev's Royal Blue's spawn and hated you when you acquired some F1's. LOL

Take care Larry,
...Ralph

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LOL, exactly my first thought also. I drooled over that pair and really wanted some of the f1's but didn't pull the trigger. Sure enjoyed watching Larry grow them out. That was my first introduction to Larry.

Glad to see you around Larry. Not many of the old time wild keeper/breeders around anymore. Your knowledge is definitely welcome!!!

Great to see you around Larry. Sorry to hear you've been having health issues. Your comments and observations have always been of interest to me. If it's of value and may help folks learn, pontificate away.

In nomine Patris et Filii et Spiritus Sancti

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Originally Posted by Apistomaster

I have bred wild Discus off and on since 1969. All of mine have been brown or blue Symphysodon haraldi. I tried but failed to breed Greens and Heckels.
I have had many wild S. haraldi come in with "y" shaped bars and other variants as have some of their fry. I consider this to fall within the range of what is normal for wild type haraldi and aequifasciata but seems to be rarer among Heckels.
I have been friends with Dutchdude and Pat Husband for many years and we have shared discus raising notes extensively.
In fact, I was the one who convinced Dutch Dude that he would make an excellent Discus keeper/breeder and that he did become.

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Wow...Larry, you must be among the first few people that breed discus, especially wild discus successfully in the States !!! 1969...I don't think my parents even meet each other that time :).

Thanks for sharing about stress bars and halo.

My 2 new wild greens make me fall in love to them and then reading this topic excite me more. Just ordered an RO unit and will get more WG for the tank. Hopefully with lower ph and RO mix with tap water and Prime, I can breed some of them :)

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Originally Posted by khooyang

Wow...Larry, you must be among the first few people that breed discus, especially wild discus successfully in the States !!! 1969...I don't think my parents even meet each other that time :).

Thanks for sharing about stress bars and halo.

My 2 new wild greens make me fall in love to them and then reading this topic excite me more. Just ordered an RO unit and will get more WG for the tank. Hopefully with lower ph and RO mix with tap water and Prime, I can breed some of them :)

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I was among the few who had bred discus in the USA but nowhere near the first. However, I suspect I was the first person who was only a 17 year kid back in 1969 who had bred wild Blues and raised a batch of fry.

Which are the ones that almost look gold ish green? And are they bred and sold as wilds kids?

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Originally Posted by Discus Origins

This is a group of Japura RSGs I purchased from John (snook) about 8 months ago. They were his AA quality greens and I believe they were $150/each. I hand selected these out of his tanks for the most spots. Its a little wierd but out of all the wild strains, the greens are usually the ones with the worst body shapes. Not sure why but just my experience with them.

I think quality-wise for most people its the more spots the better. Having a nice light base color brings out the red spots.

Mark

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Dream fish....

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Originally Posted by Discus Origins

This is a group of Japura RSGs I purchased from John (snook) about 8 months ago. They were his AA quality greens and I believe they were $150/each. I hand selected these out of his tanks for the most spots. Its a little wierd but out of all the wild strains, the greens are usually the ones with the worst body shapes. Not sure why but just my experience with them.

I think quality-wise for most people its the more spots the better. Having a nice light base color brings out the red spots.

Mark

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Mark....please show your tank....looks spot on...