I'm one of those who has found that discus do well in a wide range of pH's, specifically my 8+ well water. I've followed the idea that stable is best. Just wondering, what activity in the discus tank is affected by pH?
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I'm one of those who has found that discus do well in a wide range of pH's, specifically my 8+ well water. I've followed the idea that stable is best. Just wondering, what activity in the discus tank is affected by pH?
"activity" was meant to be a very general term: from chemical to behavioural.
Steve thats a zinger of a question. Alot of people are of the opinion that pH doesnt really matter on the keeping of discus and they never check it. I'm not quite in that camp. I think it does "matter" in a more broad sense. We know discus can adapt to a wide range of water pH... so in
that sense , it doesnt matter much.Stability is more important. Of course there are limits to what a discus will thrive in pH wise and as you exceed them the fish may survive but not thrive until you reach a point that the fish can not live in.
pH is a good indicator of water stability... pH swings tell you if you have dissolved gasses in the water.pH crashes tell you if you have low kH or soft water
High pH could indicate excess mineral in the water. High pH could foretell the need of an Ro water filter to breed Discus. A high pH could lead to an increase in bacterial loads and the need for much more tank cleanliness than in a tank with acidic water. Low pH could indicate water that will not be great for raising fry in.
Physiologically there are chemical pathways that are affected by pH and the fish itself needs to regulate its internal pH.
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Discus do seem to spawn more readily in soft acidic water than higher pH water.
Discus are generally thought to produce more slimecoat in acidic water...something thats beneficial to their immune system and feeding fry.
I realize thats a poor explanation but its the best I have. I do believe theres a lot to learn from the pH of your water and if you want to succeed with discus you should know as much about their water as you can.
Al
The second half is kind of what I was looking for. All the other ideas are usual offerings, but what pH actually affects is not usually discussed.Quote:
Originally Posted by brewmaster15
Figured if I threw enough out there something would stick.:)Quote:
Originally Posted by RogueDiscus
al
7ph is good but dopt remember now, some antibiotics its dangerous in ph 7+ so i always for treatment use ph under 7
Ph regulates enzymes and electrolytes and can effect hormones.Fish regulate ph through their gills and kidneys to buffer the ph in their blood.
The "Lore" that I believe in is that lower the PH = lower bacterial , fungal , parasitical and other microbial count and diversity , which on the other hand ends up with healthier discus with less hustle and WCs .
Just as an interesting note , a seasoned discus keeper that I follow on FB keeps his wilds in a understocked 4.8 PH Tank and does 10-20% WC every two months with success .
pH also makes a BIG difference in how toxic ammonia is to fish. The lower the pH the less toxic, therefore maintaining a lower pH reduces risk to the fish.
Steve,
I have to admit I didn’t understand your question and then tell you how much I’ve learned from it. Thanks to all who offered such good information. This goes in the discus notebook that I’m buying today. I too, only hear about stability and never thought further than that since I’m not trying to breed or raise wilds. Another reason I love SD. Thanks for putting that question out there Steve and for all the expert responses.:confused: :idea2:
Patty
I too get away with small and few water changes, due to understocking mostly. My ph is nowhere near that low, but the heckel tank being in the mid to high 5’s, I seem to get the “health” effect you are mentioning. Most people doing this, including the person you mentioned are using resins though to help with nitrate reduction. While this seems fairly common in Europe, I gather it’s not very well known or often done in the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by Filip
Some even go as far as doing no water changes at all using several resins while maintaining excellent water quality. This is mostly but not exclusively seen in wild discus setups.
The way I understand it is that living in an acidic pH offers the above mentioned advantages but requires a significant adaptation for fish species to survive there. These are also waters very poor of ions, most importantly Na+. In most freshwater species the gills absorb Na+ ions against concentration gradient by exchanging them with H+ ions. In an acidic environment this becomes more difficult to do but fish species that have adapted to these waters have developed Na+/H+ exchange mechanisms that are not inhibited by high concentrations of H+ ions in the environment.
Thanks Patty. It's funny how we have talked about this parameter for years, but my question hadn't been asked in recent memory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pices
I'm one of those that believes PH is not as important as some make it to be. My bigger concern is how soft/acidic the water is. I have to mention that Al said above "Discus do seem to spawn more readily in soft acidic water than higher pH water." I want to note that you can have soft acidic water and also have high PH. I know that soft and low PH usually go hand in hand but not always. My GH and KH are both very low and my TDS is 60 out of the well, soft acidic. My PH out of the well is around 8.0 and drops very little. Some mineral in the water is apparently buffering the PH. My water in metro Atlanta was also soft but with a PH around 6.8 and would drop quickly into the 5's in a matter of a week or so. I notice no difference in any of the different SA cichlids that I keep and they are spawning as much as ever.
As someone who uses RO to make their 8+ hard well water soft yet still high pH, and breeds successfully, I (almost) totally agree. Soft and high pH are possible, but I think you mis-spoke when you said soft and acidic, and high pH.