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Withdrawn: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Well I figured I would get my thread going finally, these are the fry I think I will use for the competition. Since we have time Im not positive as of yet, I have another batch going but almost all sold already, but Im hoping for a batch of WB fry and if that happens by the entry deadline then I may switch to those guys. Without further ado, heres the babies!! (Will edit and add pictures and video when photobucket finishes uploading)
Strain: Dark Angel
Born on: 07/07/12 (This is the first day free swimming)
Feeding schedule: Brine shrimp are fresh hatched twice daily, with 5 feedings happening throughout the day, two from the first batch and three when I get home from work each night. They also started recieving ground FDBW about three days ago (07/19/12), they always peck and eat almost all of the ground worms.
Water Change Schedule: They recieve two daily water changes, the first is a 100% water change every morning AFTER their first two feedings of brine shrimp. They then recieve a 50% water change every night after their last feeding.
Cleaning schedule: Every few days the tank is wiped down entirely and the sponge filter squeezed and rinsed in aquarium water. I do this very often because of all the baby brine shrimp that can accumulate and die off in the filter. Only filtration used is a sponge filter. They are currently in a 10 gal tank, seperated from parents at approximately 12 days.
Current Size: Approximately dime size or a little smaller at two weeks. Batch of fry is right around 30 fish, will get a more accurate count when they get a little larger.
http://youtu.be/XBgw1p22SCo
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Re: Drew's 2012 Contest Fry, Journal
Congrates do you have 2 pair of dark angels ? your other post said you got the pair on the 7/19/2012... Dark angels not my cup of tea but there are unique gl on the contest
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Re: Drew's 2012 Contest Fry, Journal
These fry are from that pair, Free swimming date documented from Hans. If I get another batch of fry out of them before the contest dates end then Ill probably use that batch, or a batch of carnations potentially, I havent decided yet. The current batch of carnation x red velvet is due to be sold and I dont have any intentions of keeping them for a year, so maybe the next batch but for now, these guys are it for the contest.
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Re: Drew's 2012 Contest Fry, Journal
Video of the babies added to the original post, enjoy! Hope everyone likes the baby angels ;)
Ohh and Here is mom and dad, they are very heavily colored as they turned blue and darkened up for the fry prior to attachment. I find the beauty in this strain is their intense ability to change their colors to a far larger degree than we see from most others, especially pigeons.
Dad
http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/...007-12/265.jpg
Mom
http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/...07-12/1409.jpg
The Pair
http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/...007-12/392.jpg
http://i1262.photobucket.com/albums/...007-12/270.jpg
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Re: Drew's 2012 Contest Fry, Journal
Is mom really that blue wow.
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Re: Drew's 2012 Contest Fry, Journal
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Re: Drew's 2012 Contest Fry, Journal
Just sold the last of the carnation x velvet fry at about a quarter size Skip, BUT you should be happy to know I have some white butterfly that should be back on eggs in a day or two hopefully and if all goes well (you know how it goes, no guarantees in this game) they will most definitely be entered in the competition. I'm going to screen them and everything this time for best chance if success.
At this point in their growth there is easily distinguished two color variants in my dark angel spawn. About 4 or 5 appear a much darker color for some reason and the others are much lighter, I expect those will be more like Dad and might get a few that have the blue like mom. I'll post another video in a few days when a week has gone by to update their progress. For now no changes other than they're growing like weeds. Still feeding artemia 5x per day and ground black worms once per day. Will introduce ground Bill's BH flakes within a few days most likely.
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Re: Drew's 2012 Contest Fry, Journal
OK everybody, i appologize for the delay but here we go. Week 3 video is UP!!! First part of the video actually shows my Dark Angel pair with a new batch of about 200 or so eggs, pretty good sized batch so hopefully all goes well and they opt to keep them, so far so good. If they do I will start a new thread as Batch 2 of Dark Angel fry. My other pairs have been giving me hell lately so Dark Angels may be my only contestants this year at least.
Anyway, Im going to take care of the typing part of the update while the video is uploading, even though I cover most of this in the video if you listen to the audio. Hope you guys enjoy it!! They're growing at a good rate and everyone is healthy.
Age & Count: Just over 3 weeks FS, went FS on 7/7/12, 22 fry in this batch confirmed
Feeding: Still recieving BBS 6x per day or more depending on schedule, fresh hatched twice daily then incubated. One feeding per day (usually morning since they are hungriest then) is either ground FDBW or ground BH w/ Pro Growth flakes from Bill.
Maintenance: Trying out doing two 95% water changes per day right now to see if there are any effects (I know not all variables are controlled). Tank is scrubbed 2x per week right now due to the large feeding schedule, filter squeezed out every other day (I use bacteria supplements at this stage again because of the high feeding schedule and often cleansing of the tank) Might be excessive but Im pretty cautious when it comes to fry.
Fish & Tank Size: The fish are now larger than dime size and actually look like discus haha, you can tell the difference from my video a week or so ago for sure. They are currently in a 10 gallon aquarium still, but tomorrow is their first moving day (they're busy packing right now)!! 37 gallon is set up and ready to rock, so I will post pictures most likely tomorrow of them in their new (old) tank.
I WANT COMMENTARY, WHAT DO YOU LIKE? WHAT DO YOU DO DIFFERENTLY? DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? The point of this whole thing is to LEARN and grow in this hobby, I expect theres much I do right and much I could improve on and above all that is my main quest in this competition (setting aside winning of course but I have that sandbagged ;) lol....)
Thats it for right now, video is posted. Enjoy!!
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Re: Drew's 2012 Contest Fry, Journal
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Fun and informative thanks and looking great. :)
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by
donnievoks
keep posting.........
donnievoks, this is not a good place for you to boost your post count.
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Well done Drew, you will be upping the documentation standard if you keep this up, but that is a good thing. Your little guys look great and congrats on the new dark angel spawn. Are you going to let the parents give this batch a go?
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
That's the plan I think, we'll see how it goes. God knows we don't get to make that decision sometimes haha but I'll let them give it a go. Only potential problem I foresee is that Dad can get pretty aggressive.... Her tail was clipped and finally grown back from the last batch. I'll try to document everything the best I can, you know how it goes sometimes time is a killer. I'm excited to track this next batch though if all goes well, then I'll actually catch attachment and everything as it goes by, hopefully they give me the opportunity!!
When you said I'll be upping the documentation... Is there something i'm forgetting that I should include for everyone?
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by
DiscusDrew
...When you said I'll be upping the documentation... Is there something i'm forgetting that I should include for everyone?
Nope, that was just a nice video on your BBS hatchery :) If I get another go with batch B2 I will include more documention on that batch in my homesteader section since I do these wilds a bit different.
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Ohhh i'm sorry hun, I reread what you said and I get it now, thank you :) I personally would love to see the differences, particularly given or future potential. Getting into breeding us such an amazing and learning experience. I hope this competition in general eggs more people on in moving that direction. It certainly is a beautiful part of this hobby. It can be so tough to make the time but when you see those cute little things every morning you can't help but keep going!
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Actually Drew the wording was a little sloppy but glad you caught what I meant, :D and yes, I am in many ways enjoying the breeding aspect especially with the wilds and I share the same wishes at yourself regarding the hobby and moving people in that direction. I have literally cried over my fish twice, first time when I watched my first pair spawn and the second when I came home from work and my first wild spawn had attached. Amazing hobby.
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
lol I cant say Ive shed a tear but they sure have turned around a piss poor day on more than one occassion :) Gotta love these little guys, but then I look back at where this all started.... a little 55 gallon tank and a few discus and a whole lot of lessons.... now two years later a ROOM full of fish popping out babies like its going out of style, and I couldnt be happier, even with the work load. The lessons still keep on rolling in but aint nobody dieing under my roof and now the lessons come in how big the fish turn out and how bright and beautiful their shape/colors are. Ill take these lessons all day long :)
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Small update on batch 2 that was pictured in the beginning of my last video update.... Its gone.... I came home today to two huge dark angels beating the living crap out of each other. Dad was incredibly defensive of the eggs (mom had to be removed on the first go around but not until later) and mom was not giving up anytime soon. Thus is the life of a breeder but I scratched the whole batch. They are still in QT technically so I wasn't willing to pull mom and put her in one of my community tanks, so my only other option was to remove the eggs. I guarantee they would have broken through a divider so it want worth it. I was damn near crying as I wiped about 150 viable eggs down the drain. Sad day in the fish room but batch one is starting to show a beautiful pink color so I'm pretty excited to get next Weeks update up. I still have two Weeks to enter more fry so hopefully they lay again in a week and I'll be ready to move mom right away.
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
That sucks Drew :( I would check with Al about entering two batches of fry from the same parents. One of the draft rules disallowed that and hence why I cannot enter another batch from my Batch B parents unless I scratch the first submitted batch.
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Ahhhh ok well maybe if I get one from these guys again I'll just track it in my homestead. That makes sense I guess. I've got carnation x velvet and white butterflies pecking and shaking after their water change tonight so hopefully fingers crossed I'll be able to enter some of their fry. Thanks for letting me know. I'm not sure if I'd be willing to scratch the first batch of dark angels when I've already tracked them for this long, but I guess it depends.
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Ok everybody!! Happy One Month Birthday to the Dark Angel Batch #1 fry!!! This months update is short and sweet, little has changed but what has will be documented here. Sad to say but for those that didnt see mom of this batch jumped out of her tank last night, tiny hole I thought would never happen and she proved me stupid. SO, Dad is with one batch right now and this is their first batch, so hopefully I get a good blue female out of this group because mom was incredibly unique, my only salvation is that i got two batches of fry before she jumped. I plan to line breed and try to create a truly "blue" pigeon. So things have changed but hoping the best for these guys.
CHANGES...
Water Change and Maintenance: I have moved them to a once daily almost 100% water change, I will never not do a daily change with fish this young but they are reasonably large now so I'm done with the twice daily water changes, we shall see the results. Cleaning done every 3 days or twice a week. They have been moved to their new 37 gallon tank for growout.
Feeding: Baby brine shrimp cut to only one batch per day, most feeding are done with Bill's BH flakes, and FDBW.
Size: Pictured against a quarter in this weeks video, most are at least that big now, with some a little smaller and some a little bigger. Right on track by my standards and doing great!
Age: One Month Today!!! Happy Birthday!!!
ENJOY THE VIDEO GUYS!!! I look forward to any recommendations or commentary!!
http://youtu.be/wVlE4tUK5xU
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They are looking good! Good luck with your blue pigeon idea!
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
You are very thorough with your videos. looks great
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
They look good Drew, even see hints of purple and pink.
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Just barely starting to show color, so cool though because I can tell there are some darker ones (those are mama number two's hopefully lol). Thanks for the comments guys, trying my best to make it a learning experience for me and hopefully others. When are you picking out your 8 fish Pat? I know yours are older than mine, I'll probably wait another month at least I think.
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Drew, I have already picked my eight fish. They are in the last posted video which I took after I moved the others out so the eight fish look a bit unhappy and are huddled in the back corner of the tank.
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Yeah fry are never crazy about that, I'll have to go watch. Your just too popular Pat (I think you're sweeter than me lol), going through 10 pages sounded so rough. I was watching religiously then I got dazed and confused lol ;). They have to be several inches now right?
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Drew, my contest thread is just older. :p Just go to the last page or so unless you want a go through the whole thing.
Several inches, I wish, maybe two at this point. LOL. They are Wild Tefe F1s or a wild green which are known to be slow growers. Even the largest of my batch A which is coming up on six months are maybe/almost four inches. These guys grow out over a two year period and maybe mature at 18 months.
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Drew,
Just curious, do you, or did you see alot of red starting at the dorsal and anal fins and extending into the fins? I doubt the darker color fry are going to turn out like mom, but we will see. What percentage do these darker fish make up of the total batch?
Rick
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Don't crush my dreams Rick! Lol no seriously I value your advice and opinion, was kinda hoping you'd stop by eventually. At their younger stage yes I did see red in the fins. I don't see much now though but I am red/green deficient so its possible I just can't see it. The total darker group is approximately 15-20% of the total batch. Were you leaning towards sex differential? I'm curious about your thoughts, and what brought on the question about red in the fins?
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Btw i'm slightly pissed at you, you just HAD to bring in some other dark angel fry to the competition huh? LOL No i'm excited about that batch actually. I don't have blue diamonds so I can't play with that cross and i'm very interested to see the results.
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Drew,
It is my guess (and it is just that, a guess) that you might get 1-2 of the dark type out of a spawn. With what Hans has shared with his knowledge of the genetics of the strain (silver pigeon x Blue diamond x Marlboro red), I think it is highly unlikely that the DA's will breed 100% true.
Perhaps the Dark ones you are seeing are either missing the BD gene, or something to do with the coloration that in inherited from the MR. At any rate it will be extremely interesting to compare your results breeding two dark angels to my results breeding a Dark Angel to a Blue diamond. I am also getting a jumbo Blue Ss from Hans this saturday, of which I plan on breeding to the double dark angel I have. Comparing all three spawns should give a pretty good idea of the basic genetic makeup of the Dark Angel.
I asked about the coloration of your fry as mine are nearing two weeks and I am suprised to see the amount of red in them, but I expect this will fade just as you have witnessed with your group.
Rick
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Quote:
Btw i'm slightly pissed at you, you just HAD to bring in some other dark angel fry to the competition huh?
LOL, there is a funny story behind that and I can honestly say the fact that I even have this pair is purely an accident. These are not the fish I had picked out from Han's NADA show fish, but a purely honest mistake was made and these are what I recieved. ;) Too date I haven't even had the Dark Angel and Blue diamond in a breeding tank, just pulled eggs from the community tank and let a foster pair raise them.
Rick
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Very interesting, sounds right in line with my conversations with Hans about what a dark angel's genetic makeup is... From those three batches we should get a very good idea, and now this competitions value just grew immensely for me. As you may have heard or read, I lost that female and as you know I was very keen on finding a fish similar to yours and that was the closest me and Hans were able to get, so pretty shitty honestly. On Tuesday I am bringing in a cobalt pair, pigeon SS pair, and jumbo male pigeon SS... I'm planning on trying to (purely for experimentation) cross the cobalt with the male dark angel I have left over, assuming he can't fine a dark angel female by the time my order ships. I know it isn't ideal because of the stress bars but it should again give insight into the dark angel regardless.... Very interested to pursue this with you, I think the dark angel holds some potential and all of this may give us a direction to move. Nice to have someone else's tanks to have to compare against at the same time... Double the progress in half the time. I truly hope eventually you can get your "double"dark angel to lay successfully, it will teach and show a lot.
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
It's my belief that the dark angel and mercury are nearly identical, with the dark angel just having a bit of Marlboro thrown in the mix. While a solid blue PB discus would be cool, I think a real challange would be to create a true blue checkerboard pigeon.
Rick
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
I'd love it but that has to be 20 years or more... First step being a blue pigeon I would think, unless the genetics could simultaneously be intertwined with another pigeon's genetics perhaps.... checkerboard, pigeon blue, etc... I need to take some classes in genetics. I'm finding more and more of an interest but I need the base science... Not necessarily as it pertains to fish to begin with.
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Great looking juvies Drew. The colors are starting to come out very nicely. I hope my Dark Angel fry look as good.
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
I was breeding these a few years back... there is a lot of mix in the genes you can make them very pink if you breed away the top layer of blue but its not something i have continued with, some you may find look like white butterfly i even had some throwbacks of what looked like snow leopard but pigeon base obviously.
http://i1202.photobucket.com/albums/...RTHDAY0029.jpg
Pink dark angel.............. blue diamond....................dark angel
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Well anyway.... WEEK 6 UPDATE!!! Sorry for the delay guys but its just been really busy but these guys are growing right on track to be about 2" by 10 weeks. Right where I want them to be. Enjoy the video guys, as always would love feedback both good and critical, after all thats what makes this competition worthwhile. Lets Learn!!
Strain: Dark Angel
Age: 6 weeks FS
Feeding: 6x per day, 4x with autofeeder filled with FDBW, BH Flake, Spirulina Flake, Seafood Flake, then I also feed once in the morning whatever I feel like, and in the evening they get whatever is left from the day of live BBS. They are no longer dependend on the BBS but it gets good nutrition so they get about everything they could get right now.
Maintenance: Water changes done 100% per day one time, tanks are wiped daily, and the filter cleaned weekly.
http://youtu.be/2hYVaJCAh_I
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Re: Drew's Dark Angel Contest Fry, Batch 1
Look-in good Drew they look like they are right on mark.....Josie :)