Black Discus

Hi guys

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
It started around 3-4 weeks ago. I noticed 2 of them have changed from a light orangey colour to almost black(!). They are getting quite thin now too. I've had them since 5th July, I thought they had settled into the tank quite well.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
Very dark in colour, getting quite thin. Eating well, tend to be hiding in the back corner.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
I thought it may have been stress as there is one discus that from time to time (not always) chases some of them, so I took all Discus out of the tank, moved everything around and reintroduced them - the fairly dominant one last.
I went to my local aquatics last weekend and they said it could be worms. I bought a treatment and have used that this week, it doesn't seem to have worked.

Have also done regular water changes - every 2-3 days 25%.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
190L tank. 6x Discus all juvenille approx 3 inches in size (purchased on 5th July).
Also have 10x Cardinal Tetras, 4 Danio's and 6 X-Ray tetras. 3 Peppered Cory Doras & 6 Ottos


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
25% every 3-4 days.


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
Running for almost 2 months. Stone substrate, about 1cm deep

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
pH is kept at 6

8. What type/brand water conditioner do you use? Do you add it to the tank or aging barrel? How much do you use?
I used AquaSafe as per instructions on bottle, add it to each container as I do the water change.

9. Parameters and water source;
Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp __28___

- ph _6.0____

- ammonia reading ____

- nitrite reading ____

- nitrate reading ____
*NOT AT HOME AT THE MOMENT, WILL AMEND THIS IN A COUPLE OF HOURS*

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.
I use tap water
- well water ____

- municipal water ____

- RO water ____


10. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
No

11. Please tell us what you feed your fish and how often. This can be critical information for solving the problem so be as specific as you can.
It differs daily. I have frozen Ox Heart, Granule & Flake food.Attachment 124486


12. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them
Attached, photo of one. The other is very similiar but not as thin.

Your help is very much appreciated. Im getting quite worried now, I don't want to loose any :(
Many thanks
JoJo

my thoughts are, and wait until several have opinionated on this before you act, are to quarantine, Raise temperature and frequent water change. It seems that you are not doing enough in that area. For slime coat I have had luck with Prime and salt. Prime is two drops per gallon. Salt could be as much as 7 tbl spoons per 10 gallons. For white poop I have had good success with Metro. Temperature rise, increase water changes, Metro, salt, and prime all at the same time.

This fish is pretty far gone. I wish you had contacted us a month ago. The first thing I would do it separate the fish into a BB QT tank. I would start by treating with Metro at 500 mg per 10 gallons for 12 days with 90% daily WC. We can re-evaluate when your done with treatment.

As far as your WC scheduled, 25% every 2 to 3 days isn't nearly enough.
You say that you keep your pH at 6. How do you accomplish that. Have you checked your tap water for a pH change after 12 hrs. in a bucket with a bubbler.
I'm interested in knowing the nitrite and nitrate reading of your tank water. I would expect to see a nitrate reading of around 20
A full tank shot would also be helpful.

That fish looks like it has been sick for months, prob even before you bought it...it is in shocking condition, so emaciated...if it is eating well as you say I suspect internal parasites, possibly tape worm, are consuming more than the poor bloke is able to ingest. If it is internal you need to treat the whole tank. Prazi is the no. 1 treatment for tape worm. I would wait for Brian, Pat or Liz to give their input before buying anything but your little guy is precariously close to death...

Liz and I were posting simultaneously, lol

What was the wormer you used? I'd think that if it is worms it's more likely to be round worms than tapes.

I have actually never treated for worms, but I think the starting with L is better for round & other flagelettes...I'm thinking with a severe hex infestation the fish would not be eating which why perhaps metro wouldn't be the best option, but it can be used in combo with the L wormer...

As the others stated, this discus appears to have been sick long before you got it. Its eye to body ratio is off and it's a little stunted. They don't lose weight this fast. Combine a sick discus, a planted tank and other misc. fish and low water change frequency and you have a very good chance of compounding the illness with cross contamination.

I would isolate all your new ones in 20g hospital tank and do 50%+ daily water changes with aged, heated and treated water. Slowly raise the temp to 89 and observe if it can handle the high temp for a few days. If it can, raise the temp to 93 and treat with metro for 10 days. It's pretty far gone so it may not survive the heat but I've also seen some pretty miraculous recoveries from discus in similar condition... If it does recover, don't expect an immediate improvement. It took along time to get this way and it'll take some time to improve...

Excellent advice, Brian.

How old is this Discus?

This could be viral in which case I would up temp to about 88, or it could also be poor water quality, was tank properly cycled, do you regularly check your water parameters, do you check your tank ph and your water change source ph ,too many people to quick to medicate without first checking water quality and I see you had nothing listed for your water parameters, I would start there.

Jeanne

Thank you all for your replies. Apologies for lack of response, the forum not very mobile friendly and I havent got access to a computer until I get to work(!).

I did a 50% water change last night, syphoning the bottom too (as I always do). This morning readings are:
No3 - 10
No2 - 5
Ph - 7
Kh - 120
GH - 180

In regards to using Metro to treat it, is this Melafix? It's the only thing I can seem to find.....
It's been recommended to use Methylene Blue from the aquatics. What are your thoughts?

Many thanks
JoJo

Nitrites are present? How about ammonia? Both must be zero. If these are in your water, your filter is not cycled and large water changes are the only way to remove them until the filter cycles.

You can buy pure metro online. I get mine here http://www.jehmco.com/html/medications.html

PLease get your water straight first before you medicate.

Jeanne

If I am interpreting your test results correctly in that NO2 is your amonium at 5 and NO3 is your nitrite at 10 you have some serious water issues, I would recommend you stop feeding the raw beef there is no better way to destroy your water quality than by putting red blood in your tank, I'm thinking you have had a amonium buildup over time and it's starting to take it's toll I would do 50 percent daily water changes and concentrate on the bottom of the tank to get rid of all the rotten beef I believe your fish will improve, and purchase some quality fish food instead of using raw beef.

Jeanne