Re: what expect from this pair
Thanks ...rod
I intend to create 3 breeding line
First selected pigeon blood with red eye
Second selected red and white with white eye
Third cross between selected pigeon blood red eye * selected red and white
I will post what I will work with
The good thing is
F1 begin to breeding in 10 month .
Re: what expect from this pair
Quote:
Originally Posted by
fisher
Thanks ...rod
I intend to create 3 breeding line
First selected pigeon blood with red eye
Second selected red and white with white eye
Third cross between selected pigeon blood red eye * selected red and white
I will post what I will work with
The good thing is
F1 begin to breeding in 10 month .
If I may, the various types you are seeing now are only the tip of the iceberg. These are the phenotypes, and as varied as they appear, it is the genotypes where you will find the most radical differences, differences that will have a profound effect on your future results. Two seemingly similar discus can give very different resulting fry.
The main concern to my mind is the pigeon blood gene, and while I like your proposal to create a strain of red eyed pigeons, a little bit of parental selecting is in order to make matters easier. Because each parent carried a single copy of the pigeon gene, most of the fry (75%) inherited this gene, with around a third of them inheriting both copies which makes them homozygous for that gene. These are the ones you want, because they will produce 100% pigeon fry, and when 2 homozygotes are bred together, then they not only produce 100% pigeons, but they will be 100% homozygous pigeons, a situation that is highly desirable. After this point, it is an easier matter of selecting for the traits you want, without having to worry about the integrity of the pigeon gene.
The tough bit is finding out which ones are the homozygotes you already have. You can't tell them apart just by looking, and crossing within the group is the most difficult way to do it as it won't lay the genes open for us to see. What is easiest is by crossing each potential parent with an unmutated wild type discus, something like a turk or a brown will do nicely. Because we know that the brown based discus does not carry a copy of the pigeon gene, when we cross we lay open the pigeon gene in the resulting fry. A homozygote pigeon parent, and every fry is a pigeon. A heterozygote pigeon parent, only some are pigeons.
You can do this with all the potential breeders including the red white ones to see if they carry both the red white and pigeon genes. There are so many potential directions to head in this sort of crossing, its a good idea to try and map your progress so you can better understand the results you will see.
Good luck and have fun, they look awesome!
Re: what expect from this pair
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rod
If I may, the various types you are seeing now are only the tip of the iceberg. These are the phenotypes, and as varied as they appear, it is the genotypes where you will find the most radical differences, differences that will have a profound effect on your future results. Two seemingly similar discus can give very different resulting fry.
The main concern to my mind is the pigeon blood gene, and while I like your proposal to create a strain of red eyed pigeons, a little bit of parental selecting is in order to make matters easier. Because each parent carried a single copy of the pigeon gene, most of the fry (75%) inherited this gene, with around a third of them inheriting both copies which makes them homozygous for that gene. These are the ones you want, because they will produce 100% pigeon fry, and when 2 homozygotes are bred together, then they not only produce 100% pigeons, but they will be 100% homozygous pigeons, a situation that is highly desirable. After this point, it is an easier matter of selecting for the traits you want, without having to worry about the integrity of the pigeon gene.
The tough bit is finding out which ones are the homozygotes you already have. You can't tell them apart just by looking, and crossing within the group is the most difficult way to do it as it won't lay the genes open for us to see. What is easiest is by crossing each potential parent with an unmutated wild type discus, something like a turk or a brown will do nicely. Because we know that the brown based discus does not carry a copy of the pigeon gene, when we cross we lay open the pigeon gene in the resulting fry. A homozygote pigeon parent, and every fry is a pigeon. A heterozygote pigeon parent, only some are pigeons.
You can do this with all the potential breeders including the red white ones to see if they carry both the red white and pigeon genes. There are so many potential directions to head in this sort of crossing, its a good idea to try and map your progress so you can better understand the results you will see.
Good luck and have fun, they look awesome!
What he is trying to say, is the real fun starts in the F2. :)
Re: what expect from this pair
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Rod
If I may, the various types you are seeing now are only the tip of the iceberg. These are the phenotypes, and as varied as they appear, it is the genotypes where you will find the most radical differences, differences that will have a profound effect on your future results. Two seemingly similar discus can give very different resulting fry.
The main concern to my mind is the pigeon blood gene, and while I like your proposal to create a strain of red eyed pigeons, a little bit of parental selecting is in order to make matters easier. Because each parent carried a single copy of the pigeon gene, most of the fry (75%) inherited this gene, with around a third of them inheriting both copies which makes them homozygous for that gene. These are the ones you want, because they will produce 100% pigeon fry, and when 2 homozygotes are bred together, then they not only produce 100% pigeons, but they will be 100% homozygous pigeons, a situation that is highly desirable. After this point, it is an easier matter of selecting for the traits you want, without having to worry about the integrity of the pigeon gene.
The tough bit is finding out which ones are the homozygotes you already have. You can't tell them apart just by looking, and crossing within the group is the most difficult way to do it as it won't lay the genes open for us to see. What is easiest is by crossing each potential parent with an unmutated wild type discus, something like a turk or a brown will do nicely. Because we know that the brown based discus does not carry a copy of the pigeon gene, when we cross we lay open the pigeon gene in the resulting fry. A homozygote pigeon parent, and every fry is a pigeon. A heterozygote pigeon parent, only some are pigeons.
You can do this with all the potential breeders including the red white ones to see if they carry both the red white and pigeon genes. There are so many potential directions to head in this sort of crossing, its a good idea to try and map your progress so you can better understand the results you will see.
Good luck and have fun, they look awesome!
Listen to the man, don't skip this step, otherwise you will be chasing your tail for generations. A lot of my "crazy cross's" I have done in the past was done in part for this reason, so I could actually map the parent discus's genealogy.
Re: what expect from this pair
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nc0gnet0
What he is trying to say, is the real fun starts in the F2. :)
Indeed, this is the make or break generation!!
Re: what expect from this pair
It's a brilliant plan rod ..... and a lot of fun .... I can't wait to begin this .
Sorry , for short massage .... my language is so bad .:D
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Re: what expect from this pair
Incredible work. Very cool to see the progress. Thanks for sharing
Re: what expect from this pair
Re: what expect from this pair
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ryan925
Wow those are impressive
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dis82
Incredible work. Very cool to see the progress. Thanks for sharing
Thanks for your kind words ...., I will keep up with the updates.
Re: what expect from this pair
Nice to see you here Amr,
You are doing an excellent job. Keep the experiments going, if you managed to fix the solid red-snow white it will be amazing.
The others with the fine patern look equally interesting.
Regards,
Amgad
Re: what expect from this pair
Thanks .... amgad for your support .and I will update the experiment .
Re: what expect from this pair
You've done a great job raising these guys. Care to share your feeding and water change schedule? Also what have you been feeding them?
Re: what expect from this pair
In first 3 month I feed 7 time beaf heart mix ... from 3 month to 6 month 5 time ... and after 3 time ... water change 80% every day after one hour from last feed .. the important thing all fish is free from internal parasites