Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"
And if the bright red fin can bred in alenquer, how can it be back bred to show as a "dominant gene" when crossed with a BD? I have two (I'm taking a guess at gen) 3rd gen BD's that seem to be bowing, one has black pectorals, other is blue pectoral fins. Is the pectoral fin pigmentation dominant or recessive in BD's (blue or black-and is black considered wild or undesirable-understand all blue:))? Which of the two ideal pectoral colors is more prevalent per gen?
Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"
it would be much easier to follow genetics if it is graphed or charted out.
by the way, the creators of the Pigeon blood where accused of creating them in a lab.
Blue diamonds took many generations to create, in fact many of the first blue diamonds actually had the vertical bars burned off with UV or so the story goes.
gregor mendal used a very simplistic method of proving his theory of genetics. if you are working with developing one or two characteristics a simple chart will work for you.
by the way exceptional fish have always come out of average fish. by exceptional of course it has nothing to do with other than tweaking the body shape, hi-body, hi-fin, vail fins, round head, color etc. to something we perceive as a superior fish.
remember the superior fish is the brown discus, it is the strongest most fertile, the strongest immune system, and the longest lived.
have fun
Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dexchung
my my this pair is pretty small to be breeding. im sure they will and are stressed out by the babies.
the outcome of this cross will surely only be some blue turqoise with varying blue thickness.
I was shocked the first time eggs showed up, for sure.:)
They don't seem stressed at all, however. Still eat from my hand and don't seem to mind moving, imo they seem to like to move when it's time to get the fry off of them. After 2 weeks they look a little haggard, but then they heal up fast and go right back to getting it on. I know most people would love to have the problem, but I really wish they would take a break, my 2 tanks has turned into 6 in a month!
I agree with the out come, but which traits from the 2 are dominant/recessive. Can things like pectoral fin color be treated as a seperate trait?
Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rfeiller
it would be much easier to follow genetics if it is graphed or charted out.
by the way, the creators of the Pigeon blood where accused of creating them in a lab.
Blue diamonds took many generations to create, in fact many of the first blue diamonds actually had the vertical bars burned off with UV or so the story goes.
gregor mendal used a very simplistic method of proving his theory of genetics. if you are working with developing one or two characteristics a simple chart will work for you.
by the way exceptional fish have always come out of average fish. by exceptional of course it has nothing to do with other than tweaking the body shape, hi-body, hi-fin, vail fins, round head, color etc. to something we perceive as a superior fish.
remember the superior fish is the brown discus, it is the strongest most fertile, the strongest immune system, and the longest lived.
have fun
How would you design a chart as such and is there a link?
Like the blue diamonds, I have started microwaving the fish with bull hair to create a new savage underwater beast the likes of which man will tremble before!:alien:
I am curious as to whether of not any these traits we are talking about have been documented or is this considered trade secret territory?
Out of the two bd's in a seperate tank does anyone know if black or blue pectoral is dominate/submissive? After think about it my guess is the blue is submissive, seeming like the black is more of a "wild" type gene, but again I have no access to records of breeding or any kind of documentation.
Beware the bull fish men. They are coming!
Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"
the black was bred out of the true blue diamonds. the stripes across the bridge of the nose were also eliminated. if you have black on the diamonds it is a throwback or someone outcrossed it.
the uv light spectrum that was used, i'll have to see if i still have that info. the blue diamond is an old strain by todays standards.
what made the blue diamond special was it was blue and nothing but blue.
the PB was introduced with much fanfare at the Aquarama in the 80's by Kiti from Bangkok. it was a sensation and started a whole rumor mill. Kiti and his organization, which controlled he told me 125,000 discus in 2001 when i visited him. the quantities of discus they have to work with represents a tremendous gene pool.
Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"
the simpliest graph or chart for genetics is a large square divided into nine equal squares, 3 high by 3 wide. you designate upper case and lower case letters and numbers to represent each trait. the upper horizonat can represent the female's or male's traits and the left vertical side of the large square can represent the mate's traits(a truely homozygos animal is genetically identical, you don't accomplish that outside of twin embreos or by cloning) when you work to set a strain you are working one trait at a time. that is easy to track with this simple chart. in my experience it took six crossings to set the trait i was working with.
Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punnett_square
Good info there on how to draw a punnett square and calculate expected outcomes.
Rod:)
Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"
Thanks for the tip on the Punnett square. With discus do we use the the 2 letter per side or 4 letter per side version? Also, to determine what is recessive and what is dominant, is the 25% fairly reliable (on 2 letter square, example BB,Bb x CC, Cc = 25% bc)?
How many generations in will the traits reveal themselves as dominant or recessive, or in the case of 2 recessive which of the 2 is dominant recessive?:confused:
On second generation of a crossed pair would the 4 letter per slot box be the best?
Trying to think this all out for the first time is a great way to get a headache. Thanks afor all help.:)
Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mcsinny99
, is the 25% fairly reliable (on 2 letter square, example BB,Bb x CC, Cc = 25% bc)?
had a few beers, but : the more offspring, the greater the accuracy of the %ages. considering a spawn of 100 fry, you should get numbers pretty close to this %age. unless one of the genes or alleles carries some lethality. if the numbers dont match, then the said trait is likely to be influenced by more than one gene. Aa is one gene 2 allelea, AaBB is 2 genes 4 allleles, where A is dominant over a and B is dominant over b. Aa is saying the trait is controlled by one gene (animal is heterozygous (mixed - 1 copy dominant allele and 1 copy recessive allele) and AaBB is saying there is 2 genes (heterozygous for A gene and Homozygous (2 dominant) for B)controlling the trait.
feel free to correct ....not sure beer and genetics go together.
Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"
ps. your avitar is nasty!:sick2:
Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
doc3toes
ps. your avitar is nasty!:sick2:
Have some holiday spirit! :D
Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
doc3toes
had a few beers, but : the more offspring, the greater the accuracy of the %ages. considering a spawn of 100 fry, you should get numbers pretty close to this %age. unless one of the genes or alleles carries some lethality. if the numbers dont match, then the said trait is likely to be influenced by more than one gene. Aa is one gene 2 allelea, AaBB is 2 genes 4 allleles, where A is dominant over a and B is dominant over b. Aa is saying the trait is controlled by one gene (animal is heterozygous (mixed - 1 copy dominant allele and 1 copy recessive allele) and AaBB is saying there is 2 genes (heterozygous for A gene and Homozygous (2 dominant) for B)controlling the trait.
feel free to correct ....not sure beer and genetics go together.
So really, I can record seperate 2 letter squares according to the traits I wish to follow, or breed towards and the 4 letter is merely a record of two seperate traits? Or, do I need the 4 letter square to map the the trait as it can be controlled by 2(or more?) genes?
Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"
No harm intended naked santa but your Av would scare my kids(I really dont know what to think of it). No bust on your poor fish(they cant help the enviorment you have shackled them with) but they look awfull. I would have destroyed them weeks ago and would never condiser them for breeding. Sorry bud... just the way I see it.
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Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"
Honestly, Mc99, your probally a real nice person. I do bring my childern to this site(I really want to get them into discus) so they can see what its about. And feed the babies while I am at work.:D Here is a cross Im working on atm. Male is the albino. Half the fry on him, the other on the female. I would guess 150 or so babies. Hope to hear from you more. You have great questions. Ed
Re: "Discus Genetics and Breeding Info and Discussion"
Quote:
Originally Posted by
mcsinny99
Trying to think this all out for the first time is a great way to get a headache.
Yep, and if you aren't getting a headache then you aren't paying attention!