Black spot disease / Diplostomiasis/ Neascus trematode

Has anyone ever seen this in discus or ever deal with it ?
From my browsing hours spend on net and here in particular it seems that this disease or better yet "condition " is fairly rare and unusual I discus fish .
That's why I wanted to share and document my experience , and maybe find someone who have successfully deal with it .
My BD is most affected , but some other discus have it too , and it's been affecting it for more than a year I guess without any visible harm or progression .

Here is a video of this not very harmfully but ugly looking parasite disease and any other members experience with it is welcomed :

BD is most affected but it's also visible on the second SS discus on the video :

http://youtu.be/yjbLHb5bpSA

Good lord, Flip. I have never even heard of this parasite before. My go to Discus disease man is Discus Hans. Paul Butler comes to mind as well. I'll get in touch with them and see if either of them have any experience with it.

Hard to tell from the video, but are the spots flat like peppering, or raised? I’m totally unfamiliar with this just asking out of curiosity.

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Originally Posted by LizStreithorst

Good lord, Flip. I have never even heard of this parasite before. My go to Discus disease man is Discus Hans. Paul Butler comes to mind as well. I'll get in touch with them and see if either of them have any experience with it.

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Thanks for your help Liz . I can surely use some expert advice because it seems that this stuff is very rare and unusual in discus fish.
I'm only guessing that it is Neascus flat worms because that's the only thing that appear when you seaech the net for Black spots fish disease .
One thing that sticks out and do not fit the description for Neascus worm disease that I found on net is, that black spots on My BD are embedded in to the skin of the fish and do not stick out nor they can be felt by touch .

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Originally Posted by BrendanJ23

Hard to tell from the video, but are the spots flat like peppering, or raised? I’m totally unfamiliar with this just asking out of curiosity.

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Flat like pigments embedded under the skin . Not detectable by touch and do not stick out .
This is the only thing that makes me hesitate if this is Neascus digenean trematode or something completely different .

Black spot disease, black cells surround by
Dark Cysts and small Dark spots sometime show up in Silver Dollars and Tangs. They are treatable with medication.

Cliff

do you know what med is used, Cliff?

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Originally Posted by CliffsDiscus

Black spot disease, black cells surround by
Dark Cysts and small Dark spots sometime show up in Silver Dollars and Tangs. They are treatable with medication.

Cliff

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Is this what is referred to as "lake spots" in wild tangs Cliff?

Flip, I'm still on this. I haven't contacted either of my guru's because I haven't had contact with either of them for a long while. I didn't want to bother them until after the holiday. I hope we can figure it out. You sure can't sell fish if they might harbor such an ugly parasite.

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Originally Posted by LizStreithorst

do you know what med is used, Cliff?

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Yes, ingredient is non-flammable picnic acid
solution. 1 teaspoon per gallon until you notice the fish is stress this could be no longer than 30 minutes. You can retreat in
a week. As for Silver Dollars and Tangs
use half dosages.

Cliff

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Originally Posted by danotaylor

Is this what is referred to as "lake spots" in wild tangs Cliff?

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It might be the same but not really sure.

Cliff

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LizStreithorst

Flip, I'm still on this. I haven't contacted either of my guru's because I haven't had contact with either of them for a long while. I didn't want to bother them until after the holiday. I hope we can figure it out. You sure can't sell fish if they might harbor such an ugly parasite.

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Thanks for your help and support Liz . Let's wait and see if Hans or Paul will respond back and offer some solution here.
Meanwhile I'm thinking of trying a classic dose PP dip / bath of 5-10 minutes with 10 ppm solution .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CliffsDiscus

Yes, ingredient is non-flammable picnic acid
solution. 1 teaspoon per gallon until you notice the fish is stress this could be no longer than 30 minutes. You can retreat in
a week. As for Silver Dollars and Tangs
use half dosages.

Cliff

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This is the first time im hearing of Picric Acid and it's use in fish treatments Cliff . I tried to Google about it and very little if none experiences came out . Im not even sure where it can be obtained and what types (flammable /nonflamable ) and % of Picric Acid are available on the market and TBH I'm not feeling very confident using it without fully understanding it . Thanks for the advice though , I've certainly learned something new regarding discus medicine cabinet .

Black Spot Disease mentioned in Fish Disease Diagnosis and Treament by Dr. Edward J.Noga page 163-166.

Treatment: Praziquantel bath.

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Originally Posted by seanyuki

Black Spot Disease mentioned in Fish Disease Diagnosis and Treament by Dr. Edward J.Noga page 163-166.

Treatment: Praziquantel bath.

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Thanks a lot Francis . I totally forgot to check Noga's editions on this subject and you have just reminded me to do so :) .
I can use Prazi for my main tank also , because it's not very strong medicine and it won't mess my filter too .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LizStreithorst

Good lord, Flip. I have never even heard of this parasite before. My go to Discus disease man is Discus Hans. Paul Butler comes to mind as well. I'll get in touch with them and see if either of them have any experience with it.

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Hello lovely, poacher turned gamekeeper eh :) Happy New Year!

Pat messaged me so here I am …

Hi Filip, have you taken a sample from the fish? Before hitting it with any chemo I'd be tempted to try and nail down what it is your dealing with. If it is a parasite causing these spots then it would be visible under a scope - assuming each spot is a single instance. Have you removed a scale or tow over a spot at all? It generally doesn't do any long term harm. I would look at the scales removed to see if they are discoloured. Also has the fishes behaviour changed? any flicking/flashing type behaviour? (this would be expected with a parasite). I'd also expect the spots to be slightly raised if is blackspot as the spot is a cyst.

If it is blackspot there must be a host or intermediate in the tank - usually snails. So if you remove the host/intermediate, the blackspot will die out. Looking at the vid I can see it has plants and what looks to be at least one snail.

I would expect praziquantel to work well if it is blackspot. You could also isolate the fish in a qt tank for a few weeks and see if that changes anything. Note that the discolouration is melanin I think so may not go away or go away slowly. It is also possible that what you are seeing now are the after effects and there is no active disease - if the other fish are free of these spots and no further spots are developing then it suggest there are no active parasites.

Hope that helps.

Thanks Pat.

Paul, it's lovely to see you again. Happy New Year back at you. :kiss:

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Originally Posted by pcsb23

Hello lovely, poacher turned gamekeeper eh :) Happy New Year!

Pat messaged me so here I am …

Hi Filip, have you taken a sample from the fish? Before hitting it with any chemo I'd be tempted to try and nail down what it is your dealing with. If it is a parasite causing these spots then it would be visible under a scope - assuming each spot is a single instance. Have you removed a scale or tow over a spot at all? It generally doesn't do any long term harm. I would look at the scales removed to see if they are discoloured. Also has the fishes behaviour changed? any flicking/flashing type behaviour? (this would be expected with a parasite). I'd also expect the spots to be slightly raised if is blackspot as the spot is a cyst.

If it is blackspot there must be a host or intermediate in the tank - usually snails. So if you remove the host/intermediate, the blackspot will die out. Looking at the vid I can see it has plants and what looks to be at least one snail.

I would expect praziquantel to work well if it is blackspot. You could also isolate the fish in a qt tank for a few weeks and see if that changes anything. Note that the discolouration is melanin I think so may not go away or go away slowly. It is also possible that what you are seeing now are the after effects and there is no active disease - if the other fish are free of these spots and no further spots are developing then it suggest there are no active parasites.

Hope that helps.

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Hi Paul . It's nice to hear from you here on the forum again. I hope you are doing well .
Unfortunately I still dont use a microscope to detect pathogens on my discus . It's something that I plan as my next purchase but so far I can only rely on the symptoms.
As for pulling a fish scales the I've never done it before , but I can try to do that .

There isnt any pronounced flashing and flicking behaviour and the spots look more like peppering under the skin rather than sticking out .
Other thing I notice is that there are visible pale colour dots /patches on the skin along with the black spots .They can be seen more clearly on the face of the discus in this second video In this post.

Snails , Helena assassin snails, got tons of them .There used to be MTS and Ramshorn snails and now there are only Assassin's left .It might be that I got this pathogen along with the Assassin's that I bought in March , this past year. It would be hard to get rid from all of them without sterilizing the tank and equipment and ditching all the plants though .I would like to postpone this as my last resort .

I will try a week or two of QT isolation after a PP dip and if that won't work I will try treating the main tank with Prazi and Levamisole to see if that helps .
Two other SS have spots here and there too , but they are definitely not progressing , or progress so slowly that I can't even notice .

Thanks again for your support Paul and kudos for my friends Pat and Liz that made an effort to reach out for you .

BD black spots and whitish pale looking discolouration patches on the face :

http://youtu.be/BN1-nOJ19hM

SS with a couple of black spots on the head :

http://youtu.be/6DrCH_pOZlQ

Hi Filip - I know that this is a very old thread, but I'd like to know what treatment ended up working? I have a SS who is going through something practically identical to yours. Thank you

My thread below:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...69#post1338469