White poop, not eating and hiding. Stressed, sick or both?

Hi all,

I'm a newbie from the UK and have had my tank for three and a half months. I'd appreciate any advice you have to offer.

Set up:

Tank size: 360 litres (95 US gallons)
Community tank fish: 5 Jaguar Pigeon discus and 5 Red Melon. (Not sure of age but I got them at the end of May at about 3.5-4 inches) Gold and cardinal tetras, flying foxes, German ram pair and plecs.
Temp: 29.1 degrees (just over 84 degrees I believe)
Water: High KH and pH about 7.8 (we live in a very hard water area but the local aquariums and fish breeders breed fish that can tolerate this). Recently I noticed some chlorine creeping in but I've now dealt with this.
Water changes: About 20% daily and 50% every 3-5 days.
Food: 4-6 meals a day; a variety of frozen Discus friendly foods, with Tetra Prime granules. Tetra colour flakes for the community fish (the Discus tend to leave them) and introduced frozen cooked mussels on advice of breeder two months ago, to tempt smaller Discus to eat

Issues:

I've always had two dominant Jaguars, one of which is very aggressive towards the others whenever food is present, but they all seem pretty chilled at other times. The Jaguars are all nearly twice the size of the Melons, despite them being similar sizes when I got them nearly four months ago. One melon is quite fiesty and will try and hold it's own with the Jaguars, but I rarely see the smallest Melons feed at all and I don't think they've grown much. A couple are pale and can display vertical stripes, which I believe can be a sign of stress, but the breeder says the males will always be paler than the females. I've contemplated putting in a tank divider to move the two fiesty Jaguars at feeding time but this isn't a very practical solution for me, so I'd appreciate any other thoughts. I've tried restructuring the tank furniture a few times and they calm down for a while but it doesn't last.

One jaguar (large size but paler than the others) has been isolating itself for about five days. It's either hiding in the artificial plants or is at the top of the tank, with its head up. It doesn't move much and I haven't seen it feed at all for this time. It is pooping large amounts of white jelly. I had this poop from most of them when they first arrived, but as they settled in, it stopped. I haven't seen this for a good few months. It is losing its colour (tail fin is now pretty black) and is looking poorly.

I have removed the sand substrate completely in an effort to keep the water as clean as possible and to avoid the siphoned, washed sand disturbing the fish when I replace it. Previously it was flying around everywhere. I'm also being more careful refilling the tank gently (our hot water runs through a softener, so I have to do all water changes with kettles and buckets) to avoid stressing the fish. This could be another reason my Jaguar may be stressed. They all hide when I do water changes and look pretty stressed.

Questions:

1. How do I know if my Jaguar is sick, stressed or both?
2. If it is sick, could it be the introduction of the frozen mussels?
3. I don't have room for a quarantine tank (my husband will divorce me if I introduce a third tank in our kitchen!), so should I just wait it out, keep water changes going and see if it improves?
4. Shall I leave the status quo in the tank and ignore the fact that the Melons are much smaller than they should be or do I need to be proactive now and potentially separate/remove/rehome the aggressive fish? I don't want unhappy fish but is it ok to accept the results of them having a pecking order and some fish being at the bottom of the pecking pile?

Thank you so much for your help.

I'll try and attach some photos later (I'm not very techno savvy so it may be beyond me) but this Mum taxi needs to kick into action with two teens to transport.

Attachment 124950Attachment 124950

Sorry, struggling to upload photos. One double image and nothing else will upload. Will keep investigating how to do this.

Normally white poo indicates hex, but I learned just yesterday from Al that not all white poo is created equal. That thick lumpy white poo is more suggestive of worms. I would treat with Levamasol.

[QUOTE=
I have removed the sand substrate completely in an effort to keep the water as clean as possible and to avoid the siphoned, washed sand disturbing the fish when I replace it. Previously it was flying around everywhere. I'm also being more careful refilling the tank gently (our hot water runs through a softener, so I have to do all water changes with kettles and buckets) to avoid stressing the fish. This could be another reason my Jaguar may be stressed. They all hide when I do water changes and look pretty stressed [/QUOTE]

Having discus in a community, planted tank with substrate is possible, but it is challenging. In order for discus to thrive they need clean water, this can be very tricky for a person new to discus.

There are several things that could probably be addressed to help your fish. Consistent water changes are really important. If you are having to do it with buckets and kettles you are probably going wear yourself out and not be consistent. It's likely that the reason your fish are getting stressed with water changes is because you may need to age your water before putting it in your tank. Figure out if your water has a PH swing when it ages.
Put some water out of your tap in a bucket or cup, test the PH of the water, if possible put an airstone in the water and let it aerate for 24 hours. Test the PH of the water again and let us know the results, before ageing and after. You will get more recommendations, but this is a good thing to solve in the mean time.

Thank you both for the suggestions. Much appreciated.
I’ve treated for worms today and will look into the logistics of ageing the water. It may be impossible with my set up but I’ll try and figure something out. I’ve managed daily water changes for nearly four months and it’s much easier now I’ve got rid of the sand. It’s part of my morning routine...kids, dogs and fish and the bucket hauling is great exercise, so I think I should manage to keep it up. They’re def worth it. Beautiful creatures. I’m struggling with uploading any more pics to show you my tank. They just won’t load. I’ll try again tomorrow but in the meantime thank you again for the advice.

What wormer did you use?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Artyharry

Thank you both for the suggestions. Much appreciated.
I’ve treated for worms today and will look into the logistics of ageing the water. It may be impossible with my set up but I’ll try and figure something out. I’ve managed daily water changes for nearly four months and it’s much easier now I’ve got rid of the sand. It’s part of my morning routine...kids, dogs and fish and the bucket hauling is great exercise, so I think I should manage to keep it up. They’re def worth it. Beautiful creatures. I’m struggling with uploading any more pics to show you my tank. They just won’t load. I’ll try again tomorrow but in the meantime thank you again for the advice.

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The pictures are probably too big. Email the pictures to yourself and it will get resized.

Hi Mama Bear. I know you advised Levamasol but I couldn’t get any yesterday so I went with Flubenzadole. I hope that’s ok. I was advised to put in some Acclimol so I put some of that in a good few hours before the wormer. The aggressive fish has definitely calmed down a bit. Still no eating and white poop still being passed by my poorly one but it’s stopped hiding in the corner and is spending more time with the others.

Attachment 124973
This is my tank set up. You can see my poorly one isolated in the right corner. You can also get an idea of the size disparities amongst the fish.

Thank you Mando. Success! ��

Attachment 124974
This one shows a little more of the size differences.

I suggest you not use the Flubendazole at this time, and try the levamosile as Liz suggested. Please read this thread, at least the beginning http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...le-side-effect

Yikes!!! Thanks for heads up Jeep. There’s some pretty scary reading in that thread. I’ll see if the shop can source some Levamisole and keep all fingers crossed that I haven’t harmed my fish. How awful for those who lost their fish. Just terrible.

The Flubendazol is almost always safe, but as Al said, why take the chance if you have a choice? Ebay has lots of it. https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw...sPageName=GSTL