Re: Discus planted tank with co2 pro system
Quote:
Originally Posted by
rbarn
You are being fed lots of bad information.
KH + Co2 = pH.
A controller will turn the Co2 on and off to maintain a certain pH level. It does not run 24/7. It comes on only when it needs to be on.
If you have fluctuating Co2 levels by just putting it on a timer with the lights then you will have fluctuating pH, and fish
hate this.
You set the ph level you want to maintain by testing for your water's KH, then setting the proper pH for the proper Co2 concentration
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_MOTNQWz_Hf.../s1600/co2.jpg
Try this forum for information
http://www.barrreport.com/forumdispl...CO2-Enrichment
Using this chart with tank water can be at best a rough estimate. You can get a drop checker and make a 4 dKh solution with baking soda and use the bromthymol blue from an api pH test. Slowly increase you pH until the drop checker turns a nice green color (use the api color chart to target pH=6.8), then set your pH controller to the pH the tank water is at this CO2 concentration.
Re: Discus planted tank with co2 pro system
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alireza
@rbarn, tnx a lot the chart is so helpful and you are right about unstable PH but if I set my ph controller, how do I know about amount of co2 that pump in the tank? I don't know if I can explain. For example, Los Angeles tap PH is around 7.8 to 7.9. , my concern is co2 so if I set PH to 7.4 it could pump more co2 to set PH at that level, am I right? If yes, it could be dangerous for fish. Right now, I set needle valve around 1.4 bpm. After 90 minutes, discus look fine to me.i changed reactor to simple glass diffuser and there is no problem yet. I will do your suggestion because I already have controller.i just want to make sure what PH I have to set on conroller? 7.4? Or 7.6? Which one is better for fish and plants?? So confusing. I checked another aquarium store today and the owner simply said , he has no idea....lol.
You need to test your water for the KH (not GH) hardness. Once you know your water's KH you can set the pH controller to hold a pH level that corresponds with the proper Co2 level given in the graph above.
The numbers in the center of the graph are for Co2 in ppm. The green shaded boxes are the "goldilocks zone" of enough Co2 to keep plants happy, but not so much you're going to gas your fish. 15-30ppm seems to be the general rule of thumb.
(rough example - your numbers will be different most likely)
So you test your water's KH and get "6". So you go to the graph, find "6" on the KH scale and follow the boxes over to the green boxes and see that 18ppm Co2 will give you a pH of 7.0. Now you go to your pH controller that will turn the Co2 solenoid on/off and set it it hold 7.0pH. Thats it.
Beyond that you can start lowering pH very slowly to see if the plants like even more Co2 and if the fish can tolerate it. Most tanks seem to end up somewhere between 6.5 and 6.8 pH depending on KH hardness.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
lipadj46
Using this chart with tank water can be at best a rough estimate. You can get a drop checker and make a 4 dKh solution with baking soda and use the bromthymol blue from an api pH test. Slowly increase you pH until the drop checker turns a nice green color (use the api color chart to target pH=6.8), then set your pH controller to the pH the tank water is at this CO2 concentration.
Correct, even drop checkers are only going to get you a rough estimate. the key is start on what you know to be the safe side of that estimate, then slowly start increasing Co2 concentrations while carefully watching plants and fish. And by slowly I mean over days and weeks of very minor adjustments at a time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dkeef
my question is even tho ph is stable, can co2 overdose occur with ph controller? (and also with co2 off at night w/ timer)
Under what scenario can this occur?
If you have a cheaper single stage regulator you can get an "end of bottle dump". Basically what happens is the pressure falls too low in the Co2 bottle for the regulator to regulate and it opens the valve fully and your bubble count goes from 1-2 per second to full flow. This will suffocate the fish in short order.
The fix is to buy a quality two stage regulator which wont do that. They cost more, but worth it in the long run.
Also, if you are not reading your KH right or your pH probe is out of calibration, then you could overdose Co2. that's why you always want to be testing water, calibrating probes and making small changes when you do change something.
Re: Discus planted tank with co2 pro system
How about this. If your kh is 6 after wc but then gradually drops then what does it mean and what do u do then?
I noticed that my kh starts at 6 but then keeps dropping and ive seen it drop to 2 without wc.
But after a week from wc, kh goes from 6 to 3-4.
Re: Discus planted tank with co2 pro system
Tnx so much. I check KH and it is 5 drops. As you wrote , the chart gives 15 for PH 7. Now, how many buble per minute is going to give me PH7 ? As API instruction, 0-3 drop is great for discus while mine is 5. Pls let me what should I do now?
Re: Discus planted tank with co2 pro system
Tnx so much rbarn. I check KH and it is 5 drops. As you wrote , the chart gives 15 for PH 7. Now, how many buble per minute is going to give me PH7 ? As API instruction, 0-3 drop is great for discus while mine is 5. Pls let me what should I do now?
Re: Discus planted tank with co2 pro system
There is no way to know how many bps is needed. U just have to play with it.
Thats why guys here recommend ph controller cuz u can turn on flow and it will stop when desired ph is reached.
With discus i would definitely get a ph controller. Or set it so low or increase bps in small amounts over weeks.
Re: Discus planted tank with co2 pro system
I already have it dkeef. I put it on 7.0 but still look like I do have some problem. I test KH and I need to now what I have to do now? Chart says 15 but what is that?
Re: Discus planted tank with co2 pro system
means u have 15ppm of Co2.
depending on what kind of plants u have, your needed co2 level will vary.
most plant will do ok but some like HC or capets will need more.
they say these days that optimum co2 is 30ppm.
but i keep mine around 20ppm and most do fine. id rather keep it lower for discus. but some delicate ones arent doing too well. (ammania gracilis, HCs)
but if u wanna crank up CO2 more then set the PH at 6.7-6.8
if after u change the setting of ph controller to 6.8 but u dont see it go down to that level, then that means u need to increase the BPS of co2 more.
Re: Discus planted tank with co2 pro system
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alireza
I already have it dkeef. I put it on 7.0 but still look like I do have some problem. I test KH and I need to now what I have to do now? Chart says 15 but what is that?
it means you may have a ppm of 15 (which is still low for a high light tank) but it could be much lower depending on your water. I would get a drop checker and distilled water and make a 4 dKh solution with baking soda and use that to see where you are at. A drop checker is not perfect but a CO2 probe is very expensive. You want your CO2 as high as possible with no visible discomfort to the fish, it may take a while to dial it in but once you get experience you can use your plants and fish to know if your CO2 is right.
Re: Discus planted tank with co2 pro system
You can buy used ph controller(w/ probe) from $50-70. new is around $100. its worth it.
Newest one:
http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/milwau...ontroller.html
this is older version that i have. works great:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Milwaukee-sm...item2ec80ae80b
Re: Discus planted tank with co2 pro system
I have PH controller. New Milwaukee mc122 and I set PH on 7.0. I'm afraid if I set on 6.8 ,discus going to die!
Re: Discus planted tank with co2 pro system
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Alireza
I have PH controller. New Milwaukee mc122 and I set PH on 7.0. I'm afraid if I set on 6.8 ,discus going to die!
Slow changes. Patience.
Set it at 7.0 .... see how the plants and fish do for 4-5 days
Set it at 6.95 .... see how the plants and fish do for 4-5 days
Set it at 6.9 ...... ect.
ect. ect.
Re: Discus planted tank with co2 pro system
Thank you guys for your help! But u cannot believe this. After all I did, I just found out Red Sea needle valve is not stable at all. I'm gonna return it back and trying to get other regulator kit. With research on line I found these two ones, Milwaukee CO2 Regulator w/Solenoid Valve, MA957 AND Premium AQUATEK CO2 Regulator with Integrated COOL TOUCH Solenoid R-76-1 .both are so cheaper than Red Sea delux. I'm wondering if you are using them or if you have better suggestion for me. Pls pls heil ASAP. I have to do it so fast.
Re: Discus planted tank with co2 pro system
It does not need to stable if you are using a pH controller to turn it on and off as needed.
I have always used the Milwaukee regulator myself with good success, had one fail, but they were good about replacing it.
If you want the best of the best use a Victor VTS 250A 2-stage regulator with anyone's solenoid and needle valve with a milwaukee controller
Re: Discus planted tank with co2 pro system
Bringing this back from the dead since there is a lot of talk about planted tank and discus across multiple threads right now. This thread has very informative info. Do you guys feel anything has changed? or is this info still valid?
Edit: even better, I just learned my apex system does what the milwaukee ph controller does.