New discus keeper health questions ~ small white tufts, heavy breather, stress bars

[Crystalwaters]

Problem

1. when and how they started:

- 5 months ago purchased seven 1-1.5". Arrived very underweight. One by one the fish would stop eating, get weak and die. Lost four of seven.
- A few weeks later purchased three additional discus, added to the group.


2. Symptoms

- Two weeks ago, saw a segment of a tapeworm and treated with Prazi Pro. Three discus expelled tapeworms.

* The runt did not expel tapeworms, but is not growing very fast. Eating well, "breathes" a lot faster and gills open more than other discus.
* Two discus show stress bars often, not sure if this is normal.
* Smallest pigeon blood gets small white tufts on fins (usually see one at a time but now see two) goes away in a few days.
* Feces usually normal but noticing strange feces occasionally. Particularily after frozen BW. It's clear, black ball, clear, black ball.... Again seems to only happen the day after frozen BW, sorry not in video, normal today.


3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

- Prazi Pro for 7 days per instructions on bottle. 1tsp/20 gallons. Water changes took place during the treatment, with medication re-added for what was taken out. 3 discus expelled tapeworms. The ones which often show stress bars and a large pigeonblood.
- Today, 2nd treatment of prazi pro started


4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

- 55 Gallon tank
- 6 discus 2.5"- 4.0"
- 6 threadfin rainbowfish
- 28 young wild caught cardinal tetras


5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?

- Bare bottom tank with potted plants
- Tank has been established for a year. It was a planted tank, changed it BB to accommodate the young discus.
- Water changes at least 6 days a week 60%
- Every second day tank surfaces are cleaned.
- Every second day the filter is removed and media rinsed. (No sponge on intake)
- Due to a space issue, 50% of the water is aged 24 hours(dechlorinated, heated, aerated) 50% from tap. Tap water is added to a bin with dechlorintor. This bin sits for an hour.


6 Parameters and water source;

- temp (usually 86F but upped to 90F during prazi treatment)

- ph 6.5

- ammonia reading 0.0

- nitrite reading 0.0

- nitrate reading 5

* municipal water ____

KH 20 (multiplying the number of drops by 10)
GH of 0.00, only required the initial drop and was the end color
Nutrafin test kits. exp 2013


7. Any new fish/plants added recently

No

__________________________________________________ __

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.

Should I medicate based on the symptoms (white spots, runt with heavy breathing, not growing well)?
Are stressbars normal for some strains and are they due to stress only, could the discus be excited?
Are strange feces normal after bloodworms?

[Eddie]

You've got some very soft tap water. Are you adding any additional trace minerals?

To answer your questions:
Should I medicate based on the symptoms (white spots, runt with heavy breathing, not growing well)? The white spots could be an indication of a problem but in most cases, a salt dip will remove the spots. Make sure you return the fish to a hospital tank for further observation. Also, if the problem is in the main tank, you'll eventually have to treat the main tank and the tetras are sensitive to most treatments so take that into consideration.
Are stressbars normal for some strains and are they due to stress only, could the discus be excited? Yes, the stress (mood) bars are normal for those type.
Are strange feces normal after bloodworms? Yes, they expel the bloodworm casings so the feces look clear and stringy.

[Crystalwaters]

You've got some very soft tap water. Are you adding any additional trace minerals?

To answer your questions:
Should I medicate based on the symptoms (white spots, runt with heavy breathing, not growing well)? The white spots could be an indication of a problem but in most cases, a salt dip will remove the spots. Make sure you return the fish to a hospital tank for further observation. Also, if the problem is in the main tank, you'll eventually have to treat the main tank and the tetras are sensitive to most treatments so take that into consideration.
Are stressbars normal for some strains and are they due to stress only, could the discus be excited? Yes, the stress (mood) bars are normal for those type.
Are strange feces normal after bloodworms? Yes, they expel the bloodworm casings so the feces look clear and stringy.

Thanks so much!
I've never dipped a fish, so this will be a learning experience for me. I do have extra tanks for QT.
No, I'm not adding trace minerals to the water. They beefheart shrimp mix, they eat twice a day, contains women's multivitamins. I am going to look into this trace stuff for the water, thanks again for the head ups and your response

[Eddie]

Some people don't add anything to their water to revitalize it but if you have young fish and soft water, I'd add something like calcium chloride and magnesium sulfate or some companies make complete mixes to help restore essential/trace minerals. Its a preference thing.

[Crystalwaters]

Here in the city we have 2 fish-only shops plus a pet store chain. None of them have Kent Marine RO Right or Seachem discus trace. I'm going to have to order it online. Thanks so much for pointing it out, I had no idea there was such a product!

[Chicago Discus]

You've got some very soft tap water. Are you adding any additional trace minerals?

To answer your questions:
Should I medicate based on the symptoms (white spots, runt with heavy breathing, not growing well)? The white spots could be an indication of a problem but in most cases, a salt dip will remove the spots. Make sure you return the fish to a hospital tank for further observation. Also, if the problem is in the main tank, you'll eventually have to treat the main tank and the tetras are sensitive to most treatments so take that into consideration.
Are stressbars normal for some strains and are they due to stress only, could the discus be excited? Yes, the stress (mood) bars are normal for those type.
Are strange feces normal after bloodworms? Yes, they expel the bloodworm casings so the feces look clear and stringy.

+1 .....also I would age the whole tank your probably doing that because you don't have another heater but I'm not really sure.....josie

[discuspaul]

If you're dealing with soft water and low TDS's as I am (lack of some necessary GH/KH), in addition to what Eddie pointed out, some folks (including myself) get good results restoring a balance of trace minerals by using Seachem Equilibrium... check it out.

[Eddie]

Here in the city we have 2 fish-only shops plus a pet store chain. None of them have Kent Marine RO Right or Seachem discus trace. I'm going to have to order it online. Thanks so much for pointing it out, I had no idea there was such a product!

Aside from RO Right and Discus Trace, you can simply buy Calcium Chloride in bulk from the hardware store. Not sure if you can pick-up magnesium sulfate there too.

[Crystalwaters]

Thanks Josie, it's laziness on my part. I use buckets and 2 rubbermaid bins, one started to leak by the handle and I never replaced it. So I fill it the day of, and watch for leaking water. Also, the spot I used to keep it is now taken up by another tank! LOL I'll have to find some space for sure Thanks for taking the time to read through my newb questions

One follow up though, should I wait to dip the pigeon? He's on , Round 2, Day 2 of prazi-pro treatments.

Thanks guys for the extra info about the trace minerals.

[Eddie]

Prazi-pro is very limited to mainly tapeworms. If the fish hasn't dropped any yet, than it ain't going to. One thing about Prazi is that it's fairly easy on the fish. You can definitely pull it and do a salt dip. Just make sure you put it into a hospital tank after the dip.

[Crystalwaters]

Hi guys thanks for the advice. I did not dip the pigeonblood, the spots were gone the following morning. Happy because after reading the procedure, I think I would be more stressed than the fish!

Sorry if I should make a new post. Moderators please feel free to let me know I am now pulling out my hair with foggy tank water. Doing some research here on Simply Discus, and believe that I am over cleaning.
I would like to cut back on the water changes until the tank "catches up", and I'm picking up more bio media. The water tests continue to say 0 amm, 0 NO2, and because of the fog, i believe they are not accurate.

Is 25% daily enough for the discus? 2" - 4.5"
I have an established tank, crystal clear water, should I take bio media from that? My concern being that the tank contains an angelfish, I don't understand the relationship between angelfish and discus. Is it recommended not to mix them because the angelfish is more aggressive, or is it a health issue?

[discuspaul]

25% daily wcs should be satisfactory.
As for keeping Angels with Discus, many discus-keepers do that quite successfully with no issues.
However, Angels may at times display more aggressiveness than discus, and outcompete them for food. That is particularly so if the Angels are as large as, or larger, than the discus, or in greater numbers.

On occasions, it can be a health problem too. Angels may harbor pathogens that they are resistant to, but the discus may not be. This could occur more frequently if the Angels are wild-caught, rather than domestic bred & raised. The risks are low if they're domestic Angels, but there is still a risk.

[Crystalwaters]

Thanks for the reply. I will do 25% for a few days and see if that helps and more bio media too. If all else fails I'll grab some media from the angel tank. My angel is definitely domestic, double black, lace veil.

Forgot to mention I am aging 100% of the water now LOL!

[Crystalwaters]

Bah! I must feed these guys too much. Did 25% the last few days and the water went from cloudy to green :-O. I added a ton of bio media did a 75% water change this morning and the water is no longer green or cloudy. Yay! What great fish I have, they weren't too mad at me!
Thanks for the advice about the angelfish, I always kept them separate from discus, even the equipment, but didn't understand why!