Finishing off the shopping list

[Gamedad]

I have done many hours of reading here on SD for several days, learning (hopefully) how to care for discus in the proper way. I have done some shopping but would like to confirm my selections before starting the physical set up process.

Design goal: Combination biotope, Ram/tetra friendly planted on one end, Discus friendly biotope on the other. Lighting will be graduated, brighter on plants with lower lighting on the discus biotope end.

Holding tank-
-50g with sponge filter, low wattage light, for a few hours of viewing and BB. Looking to house about 10 juveniles until appropriately sized for main display.

Main display-
1. 215g tank, sump w/filter sock is now gone (former SW tank), FX5 is going in it's place. (Sumps with a 1500gph flowrate don't mix too well with planted tanks I'm thinking.)
-The FX5 will be connected to the existing overflow and return connections.
-A spray bar will be built between the 2 returns to break up the 'jet' effect from only 2 outlets.
2. CO2 system, tank w/regulator, inline diffuser on a closed loop.
3. For a soft flow of water I'll be adding a Hydor or two.
4. Plants will be limited to 3, maybe 4, varieties with several specimens for each, i.e. about 12 plants in total to start the tank. Children are expected from the swords.
5. I will be using a substrate mix (only on the planted end) capped with a thin layer (1") of a medium grained white sand. The other end will be sand only (1" or so).
I have used this combination on other tanks and I have found it to work well.
6. Only a few varieties of fish for tank mates...cory's, emperor tetra's (maybe 15 or so), rams (4-5 max), tiger pleco, blue spot pleco and spotted raphael cat. I may need
to add some siamese algae eaters or a couple of bristle nose plecso's depending upon algae growth.

The rest of the list-
Do I need/should I have a TDS meter?
Moving fluidized filter?
Is API an acceptable test kit?
What test kits are recommended (or required) beyond pH, Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate?
I have matrix for the FX5, anything else that is recommended for the trays?

I am open to any input or suggestions for improvements on this set up.

thanks!

[joanstone]

Just a thought on the sump. I don't see the need to eliminate that. I use a 55 gallon aquarium as a sump on my 220 and am very happy with it. You can make the flow rate anything you want. You've got a drilled tank, might as well utilize it. My 220 used to be a reef tank too.

[Gamedad]

You're right, the flow could be adjusted. My primary concern is gas exchange and the money. There's a lot of turbulence in the sump when it drains which results in a significant loss of CO2. I can compensate for that by increasing the injection rate but that will drive up the monthly cost of operating the tank. I would estimate the consumption of CO2 on this tank would rise to about $60.00 per month if I compensate for the 'lost' CO2. It's $15.00 per fill and I'd be going through about 1-5lbs CO2 tank every week or so. I would prefer to keep the sump frankly. If my thoughts on this are off the mark then that would be good news.

[SMB2]

Why CO2? Are you planning on difficult plants? Seems like more chance for PH crash. What is your aged tap water PH?

[joanstone]

Sorry, I wasn't really thinking about it in terms of your wanting to utilize a CO2 system. A CO2 system is not something that I have ever gotten involved with.

[Gamedad]

Joanstone, no need to apologize


SMB2-no, crypt wendtii (most likely), Amazon, Ozelot and Ruben swords are what I'm thinking at the moment. Aged tap water pH is 7.6. As for the 'why'--I'm doing something I'm comfortable with I guess. I can go without the CO2 if it doesn't make sense due to risk. I do know that you have to be more careful on this type of tank than a fully planted one with no discus.

[Gamedad]

"Simply Discus is an Oxymoron"--I 100% agree!

At this point, I'm positive keeping my SW tank would have been easier.

[Poco]

Welcome to SD!

No disrespect but you are focusing too much on your display tank rather than your start up juvie tank. Reading from the post I guess you haven't kept discus before, I would suggest to wait on the planted set up. It is a big challenge to maintain water quality even for the experienced hobbyist, there is a lot to be learned before. Keep it simple until you are comfortable with what you are doing IMO.

API Master test kit is good.

Keep reading!

[Trier20]

Welcome to SD!

No disrespect but you are focusing too much on your display tank rather than your start up juvie tank. Reading from the post I guess you haven't kept discus before, I would suggest to wait on the planted set up. It is a big challenge to maintain water quality even for the experienced hobbyist, there is a lot to be learned before. Keep it simple until you are comfortable with what you are doing IMO.

API Master test kit is good.

Keep reading!

+1 I suggest taking it slow on your display tank. You might find that after growin out the juvies in a BB tank that you really love it. I would start your display tank as a BB then over time add substrate and plants if that is what you decide you want. I would stay away from the Siamese algae eater as I've seen them kill green terrors before. They have a temper. For your filter I would most fill trays with bio media and have one polishing pad if you desire. I've found with the amount of water changes you so the water stays really clean. Good luck with your venture!

[Gamedad]

Welcome to SD!

No disrespect but you are focusing too much on your display tank rather than your start up juvie tank. Reading from the post I guess you haven't kept discus before, I would suggest to wait on the planted set up. It is a big challenge to maintain water quality even for the experienced hobbyist, there is a lot to be learned before. Keep it simple until you are comfortable with what you are doing IMO.

API Master test kit is good.

Keep reading!

+1 I suggest taking it slow on your display tank. You might find that after growin out the juvies in a BB tank that you really love it. I would start your display tank as a BB then over time add substrate and plants if that is what you decide you want. I would stay away from the Siamese algae eater as I've seen them kill green terrors before. They have a temper. For your filter I would most fill trays with bio media and have one polishing pad if you desire. I've found with the amount of water changes you so the water stays really clean. Good luck with your venture!

I agree with the philosophy of having a BB tank for a grow out. I have read Carol's posts and others from more experienced folks here. I will do all I can to execute that to the best of my ability. My focus for the juvie tank will be discipline in exercising my husbandry skills.

There is no question that I'm taking on a big challenge and it's one that I will not shy away from. I have a knack for this hobby (except for the artistic stuff lol). I have an intuitive feel for what's going on in my tanks. I haven't been able to transfer that 'skill' to other folk's tanks but it does seem to give me an edge many don't have. Perhaps it's my years and experience in the hobby or just plain dumb luck, I don't know. I do know that I'm up to the challenge and that it will be several months before the fish are ready for the main display and the water column in the display is ready for the discus. During that time I will read, observe, make adjustments as necessary and look forward to the day when both are ready. There is no subsitute for experience. I can't get that without doing it so off I go!

API--good to know. There was some question in a thread or 2 about accuracy and I wasn't sure if API was acceptable in that area.

SAE's-wow! I have not heard or seen that type of aggression from one those. Did that happen in your tank, Trier20?

I thank you for the input and welcome more of it.

[SMB2]

Discus are just fish...but they do funny stuff. They get dark, they fight, they scratch, one gill breath, hyperventilate, go on hunger strikes, poop white, (black, brown etc), get constipated, eat their eggs, AND THAT'S THE HEALTHY ONES. Just read the disease posts (and I'm in there too) and there are all kinds of folks freaking out while the old guys are just saying relax, stop putting chemicals in your tank. So the advise to learn about Discus behavior, first hand with out all the other stuff going on is one everybody should heed. Also if you can afford 4.5 inch fish, start there.
For a display tank, I am not a BB fan. But the heavily planted Japanese/German/Dutch tank with Discus requires lots of time and certainly money. I think plants do stabilize the water parameters. Discus like to nibble on them, which I like. But Discus are foragers and like to work the ground to see what the can "blow up" from the bottom, to eat. I just yesterday took 10-15 various Swords out of my tank to give the flat fish more room and bottom space. Sure enough they have spent most of the morning working the bottom. If you have to remove a fish, a heavily planted tank is a PITA. The best idea I have seen so far in my highly limited experience is to plant in small tupperware containers using a good plant substrate, position them and then use a sand of your choice as the tank substrate, hiding the "pots". Add wood and rocks to taste.
As to CO2, it may work for the plants, but it will likely get you chasing the PH, not a good thing. If you keep a PH of say 6.8 in the tank, then you have to adjust your aged tap water. So much easier to age your water and do a WC keeping the PH at 7.6. The plants and fish wont mind and there is much less margin for error.
Devise a system that will allow you to do a 75% WC in 30 minutes (or you will slack off) and keep in mind you may want to leave town on vacation, so your tank should be maintainable by some one else.
Sorry that is so long, just food for thought as I am making Chilli for tonight.

[Trier20]

SAE's-wow! I have not heard or seen that type of aggression from one those. Did that happen in your tank, Trier20?

Yea killed three of them LOL I couldn't figure out what was killing them and someone else noticed on all three the marks from the mouth of the SAE. Blew my mind. So with that I stay away from them. Especially with discus wince they have that nice addicting slime coat.

[Gamedad]

Crazy stuff Trier20.

SMB2-You've got a great point on the pH. That's a balancing act I can live without.

I'll use the CO2 on another planted tank.

Anyone on the moving fluidized filter? I know they're supposed to be good for the instant response to an ammonia spike and that the jossling of the K1 media helps keep fresh bacteria populations but has anyone found them to be that beneficial? I've used similar items in the dark ages on saltwater tanks for pretty much the same reasons but it seemed like you could get along with out them. Same story here?

[SMB2]

http://www.thatpetplace.com/lifegard...FQZnOgods1EAhA

I have considered using this driven by a Magnum 350 which I run just to polish the water. My main filter is a W->D.

[Gamedad]

That would be the one that I was using back in the dark ages LOL. It does work and I had no issues with mine. It was on a SW instead of FW though.
In my current set up it would be easy to add. I have 2 outlets plumbed into my return that I could connect this to. I don't need the extra flow to the tank, in fact I'd like to
lower it a bit for the discus.

Are you looking to replace the W/D or supplement it?