Breeding problems

[troweler]

I have a pair that spawn on a regular basis and they have also raised 2 batches of fry. The problem is the male as become quite aggresive all of a sudden and as a result the spawns have been but a few eggs here and there and no fertilisation. I just wondered if anyone else as experienced this.

[timmy82]

Something has changed to make him angry new tank, different weather, temperature, water parameters? Maybe split them up for a few weeks as he is probably keen to go and she just wants a rest?

[troweler]

Something has changed to make him angry new tank, different weather, temperature, water parameters? Maybe split them up for a few weeks as he is probably keen to go and she just wants a rest?

Ah come to think of it they never been the same since i moved them to a bigger tank. So you reckon hes keen to get away from her then?

[John_Nicholson]

I hate the word angry....it implies intelligence that a fish with the brain the size of a pencil eraser does not have. The most natural thing for healthy, comfortable animals to do is to reproduce. Most of the time when they don't something is not quite right from an environmental stand point. Water, temp, nutritionist, etc..., but then again I have also seen a few pairs that just never did seem to get a long. If the male always bully's the female move her to a new tank and let her setup shop, then move him in. Hopefully she will work him over. If not you can put a 3rd fish in the tank for them to pick on for a while. Sometimes that will "cure" the issue.

-john

[timmy82]

Ah come to think of it they never been the same since i moved them to a bigger tank. So you reckon hes keen to get away from her then?

It sounds like he is keen to breed at the minute and she isn't. I would try what John said.

[troweler]

I hate the word angry....it implies intelligence that a fish with the brain the size of a pencil eraser does not have. The most natural thing for healthy, comfortable animals to do is to reproduce. Most of the time when they don't something is not quite right from an environmental stand point. Water, temp, nutritionist, etc..., but then again I have also seen a few pairs that just never did seem to get a long. If the male always bully's the female move her to a new tank and let her setup shop, then move him in. Hopefully she will work him over. If not you can put a 3rd fish in the tank for them to pick on for a while. Sometimes that will "cure" the issue.

-john

Is there a paticular reason why to move the female and not the male? Also how long would you seperate i was thinking maybe a month

[nabilbb]

Something has changed to make him angry new tank, different weather, temperature, water parameters? Maybe split them up for a few weeks as he is probably keen to go and she just wants a rest?

+1

[John_Nicholson]

You want the aggressive one to be the last one in the tank. You want the docile one to setup shop in the tank first.

-john

[troweler]

He as also suffered some fin damage hope it will heal

[troweler]

Since i seperated them they have now stopped eating

[John_Nicholson]

It is not abnormal. When you move animals it takes them a few day to get comfortable again.

-john

[Jeff O]

I hate the word angry....it implies intelligence that a fish with the brain the size of a pencil eraser does not have. The most natural thing for healthy, comfortable animals to do is to reproduce. Most of the time when they don't something is not quite right from an environmental stand point. Water, temp, nutritionist, etc..., but then again I have also seen a few pairs that just never did seem to get a long. If the male always bully's the female move her to a new tank and let her setup shop, then move him in. Hopefully she will work him over. If not you can put a 3rd fish in the tank for them to pick on for a while. Sometimes that will "cure" the issue.

-john

John id like to respectfully disagree with you on this topic. The topic on fish having emotion is one that I'm very interested in. When I first saw posts (mainly on here) against this theory I re searched it. You have had discus for more years than I've been alive, I would guess, so it would be foolish to come at the idea with my own personal experience lol. When I did my re search what I found is that the thought of cichlids in general having No emotion, is a dated one. And the excuse of them having the brain the size of a pencil eraser is meaningless. We as humans only use 10% of our brain this a proven fact, that is the size of a gulf ball, compare that to our body size and its pathetic. Cichlids actually share a lot of the same emotions we as humans have, but on a little bit of a different level, Here are some quotes from a Stanford Re-search.

"I think this stimulus is so far outside their realm of experience that it results in this somewhat emotional response," said Desjardins.

This research is significant because, at their core structural levels, fish brains and human brains are very similar.

When the researchers performed postmortems on the fish, they found levels of testosterone and other hormones associated with aggression were comparable with others in a control group.

When dissecting another part of the brain called the amygdala, which associates with fear, researchers found evidence of more activity in the mirror fighting fish, than those who tussled with real foes.

This is just something that I personally found interesting and it has changed my perspective. I have no means of persuading anyone. Even with re search yes it could still be based on opinion however, I have said this before and il continue to stand behind it. We as humans see ourselves as the prime species, above all other animals, we give other animals little to no credit what so ever, what are we doing that is so wonderful? Destroying our planet piece by piece on a daily basis? Take away all our technology, and everything else, what are we? Nothing. We are just another animal.

I had no intention in high jacking your thread OP. I apologize!

[John_Nicholson]

Nice post Jeff. I have no problems with well thought out scientific experiments with logic conclusions.....but I see lots of faux research these days that is not reviewed in peer publications. A quick observation...my tank of Sabres PB's is positioned where I feed the tank to its left hand side before feeding them. I then slide their right hand side door open to feed them. You would think they would be smart enough/learn this but no they still pile up on the left hand side of the tank when I feed the other tank. They have never been able to "learn" that their food will be coming from the right.

-john

[Jeff O]

Nice post Jeff. I have no problems with well thought out scientific experiments with logic conclusions.....but I see lots of faux research these days that is not reviewed in peer publications. A quick observation...my tank of Sabres PB's is positioned where I feed the tank to its left hand side before feeding them. I then slide their right hand side door open to feed them. You would think they would be smart enough/learn this but no they still pile up on the left hand side of the tank when I feed the other tank. They have never been able to "learn" that their food will be coming from the right.

-john

I couldn’t agree more! It would take massive amounts of lab research, money, and overall time to clear this hypothesis.
-Jeff