HELP!!!! ASAP.. Discus DYING/ new tank... how to fix this

[sunshine]

HELP!!!!!!! my discus are not doing good... they are at the top acting like they need oxygen.. they have that white/grey slim on them a little.... they are not eating...havent since last friday.. okay just a tiny bit...... Here is what we did... We bought 4 new ones and had 6 in our tank already. they were doing great our aged tank old ones.....

we changed out the whole tank..... got new Substrate black for our plants and eco system.. we use a magnum 350 filter, and also now have a bio sponge, (the grey one with a tube sticking out that blows bubbles)..... the one most fish stores have in their tanks.... we have a 90 tall...... we are doing all we can... changing water daily.. now like twice a day to keep the oxygen up........ we need help fast..... what are we doing wrong.... my husband is soooo impatient, he didnt wait a full week to put the fish in our new tank.... UGGGG!!!!! but now the damage is done... should we move them all out to our 20 gallon hospital tank asap?????

We need to to fix this asap..... what will fix this.... we messed up big time.... but we dont want them to die.....




DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

not eating well, staying in corner up at top, will cruise tank every now and then, but mostly acting like need oxygen. Greyish film over bodies. started when we converted our tank over, to substrate fill and added a bio sponge for extra filtertration.



2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)....

turning dark, not eating, clamped fins, some have white tips (just starting)... staying at the top of tank..






3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

tried/trying, melafix/tea tree extract for the body slim.... metro pure.. for possible hole in the head/wasting away... I have put bottled baterica in tank .... I have put stuff to lower nitrates/ nitrites.. because they are spiking out of control... also just put a nitra block bag from api in my magnum filter 350 to help balance spikes.





Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

90 Cali tall. 30 fish. 10 Discus, 4 are 2'inches, 3 are 5'inch, and then 3inch. then neon's, pelcos, glow fish.



5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?
everyday now, because of spikes. but normally once a week.. tank was set up for over a year.. until we switched to a substrate last friday March 15th. we had gravel before that. No i dont age my water, I just use the remover of metals bottled stuff..



6 Parameters and water source;

- temp ___86__

- ph ___6.5__

- ammonia reading ___0. .05_

- nitrite reading __when spikes mid range __

- nitrate reading __same__

- well water __no__

- municipal water ___yes_

7. Any new fish/plants added recently
added 4 new Discus ....

[Chad Hughes]

Welcome to Simply!

The header of the disease section has a link to a form that is required so that we have information required to help most disesase issues.

You mentioned that you have plants in your tank. Do you also use CO2 and fertilizers? If so, shut off the CO2 and stop fertilizing.

[Second Hand Pat]

OK, first add some airstones into the tank to get more oxygen into the water. Second, what are your water parameters especially ammonia and nitrites. Third, fill out the disease questionnaire at the top of this section.

[strawberryblonde]

Hi Sunshine,

Okay, first things first. Could you fill out this disease questionnaire and paste it into this thread for us? It helps us get more info and insight into water parameters, etc. Questionnaire

Next, you already know that the new discus have probably exposed the rest of your discus to something they weren't prepared to handle. No sense beating yourselves up now for not doing a proper QT of them (usually QT for discus is at least 6 weeks), so time to move on and see if we can help you fix the situation.

You said that you changed out the whole tank. I know the substrate changed, but what about the magnum filter. Did you also change out the filter media on that? There is almost always a mini-cycle when you add more discus to a tank, but if you also changed the filter media on the magnum you may be experiencing a full cycling of the tank. If that's the case, the MOST important things are going to be huge water changes to reduce the ammonia in the tank and the addition of Prime to neutralize it's toxic affect on the fish.

Beyond those basic things, it's best to wait till we have your questionnaire and more details. Pics would be really helpful too.

[sunshine]

I did add the questionaire just a few minutes ago. thanks.. If I missed something.. I will add it... if not enough information... Yes we did change the filter.. because we thought it could contain harmful bacteria because we shut if off for a few days, to see if our new bio filter would be enough, (now I know that was a mistake becasue the filter wasnt seeded yet)... I just want to do what is right to keep them alive long enough for this tank to balance out. how do I get them to eat now?

[sunshine]

Yes I filled out the form .. can you see it now??? thanks

[sunshine]

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish/when and how they started

not eating well, staying in corner up at top, will cruise tank every now and then, but mostly acting like need oxygen. Greyish film over bodies. started when we converted our tank over, to substrate fill and added a bio sponge for extra filtertration.



2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/ white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds)....

turning dark, not eating, clamped fins, some have white tips (just starting)... staying at the top of tank..






3. What medications/ treatments that you have already tried and results. Include dosages and duration of treatment.

tried/trying, melafix/tea tree extract for the body slim.... metro pure.. for possible hole in the head/wasting away... I have put bottled baterica in tank .... I have put stuff to lower nitrates/ nitrites.. because they are spiking out of control... also just put a nitra block bag from api in my magnum filter 350 to help balance spikes.





Tank/Water

4. Tank size and age, number and size of fish

90 Cali tall. 30 fish. 10 Discus, 4 are 2'inches, 3 are 5'inch, and then 3inch. then neon's, pelcos, glow fish.



5. Water change regime/ how long has tank been running/ bare bottom or gravel/ do you age your water?
everyday now, because of spikes. but normally once a week.. tank was set up for over a year.. until we switched to a substrate last friday March 15th. we had gravel before that. No i dont age my water, I just use the remover of metals bottled stuff..



6 Parameters and water source;

- temp ___86__

- ph ___6.5__

- ammonia reading ___0. .05_

- nitrite reading __when spikes mid range __

- nitrate reading __same__

- well water __no__

- municipal water ___yes_

7. Any new fish/plants added recently
added 4 new Discus ....

[sunshine]

I have two pretty large air stones that are always running in our tank. and now another one with the bio sponge, it blow large bubbles through the pipe too... I also just added an additional water blower at the top to agitate the surface for I was told that would help.. i thought the air stones would have been enough. I bought the PRIME stuff yesterday and put in the tank to remove the nitrates/nitrites.... and added that bag to my magnum to reduce the spikes.... this morning the spikes were not as bad and the amonia wasnt present.. but fish are still at the top.. even with water changes... I did like 3 water changes yesterday in fear of lack of oxygen... when you say CO2 what do you mean? I have been using the bottled baterica booster because I was told it was because of the new tank and not enough good stuff in it.. but then was told it may be bad to use to much because will cause the oxygen to go low??

[Berylla]

How much do you change out? With ammonia spikes, I would do at least 75% at a time, 2x a day. What kind of black substrate did you use? Was it the eco complete stuff or sand blasting? The sand blasting sand is usually full of dust and needs to be rinsed out. However, massive water changes could also accomplish this.

[sunshine]

I used the eco completed, more weighted, not sand because I knew that was to fine. I am doing everyday water changes, at least 40 percent to 50%. yesterday I stayed home from work to try all I could for my babies... now my husband is at home trying all we can to save them... he did a 40 % again today and rinsed out our bio sponge some because it was caked with gook. I did three water changes yesterday because it seemed nothing good enough. I dose them with the melafix to help the body slim on them, but then when I do a water change, I feel I need to redose them right? and can I dose with metro at the same time as melafix?? we use the stress coat /clorine remover stuff when we water change each time. We have good city water.

[Chad Hughes]

What I meant by CO2 was some planted tanks use pressurized CO2 tanks for optimal plant growth. I'll assume that you are not using CO2 based on your response.

Your tank is definately not cycled but that's not a huge issue. The filters will come about eventually and all of your levels will fall to zero.

For the time being, you'll need to perform LARGE (80 - 100%) daily water changes to keep the Ammonia, Nitrite and nitrate levels low. Adding Prime is a great idea. The only issue with Prime is that it will give you a false positive ammonia reading if you are using API titration tests kits. Once you add prime, you'll have to wait 24 hours to test for ammonia.

Stop using additives/meds. This is a water quality problem. Large water changes should be all you need.

[sunshine]

What I meant by CO2 was some planted tanks use pressurized CO2 tanks for optimal plant growth. I'll assume that you are not using CO2 based on your response.

Your tank is definately not cycled but that's not a huge issue. The filters will come about eventually and all of your levels will fall to zero.

For the time being, you'll need to perform LARGE (80 - 100%) daily water changes to keep the Ammonia, Nitrite and nitrate levels low. Adding Prime is a great idea. The only issue with Prime is that it will give you a false positive ammonia reading if you are using API titration tests kits. Once you add prime, you'll have to wait 24 hours to test for ammonia.

Stop using additives/meds. This is a water quality problem. Large water changes should be all you need.

GREAT! I am for sure not using a CO2 filter then. . I will keep up on the water changes, I will stop the meds.. I will do as you suggest.. NOW..... how do i get them eating again?? should raise the temp more? We have it about 84-86. I tried to post a photo, not sure you can see it yet.

[lipadj46]

Your tank is cycling and you really need to either be doing near 100% changes at least once a day with aged water or get do a complete change and add 2 large bottles of tetra safe start and not do anything. Either way don't do anything to the filters while it is cycling and don't feed at all at this point and use prime between changes. Filter substrate ammonia/nitrite removers are just going to make the cycle last longer. Hopefully they are healthy enough to recover. Toss the melafix in the trash btw, dosing with metro is just going to add to the problem at this point IMO.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Sunshine, getting them to eat is not a concern for now. Also if you are running a light over the tank turn it off and see if the discus relax a little.
Pat

ps Welcome to SD

[sunshine]

Hi Sunshine, getting them to eat is not a concern for now. Also if you are running a light over the tank turn it off and see if the discus relax a little.
Pat

ps Welcome to SD

Thank you for the welcome!!!! I wasnt sure where to turn in a hurry and our local fish store is great but wasnt open. So I guess we have been the right thing by the water changes. How long can Discus go without eating?

I am sorry ,y'all, if I just came in and spilled my problem all over the place, but I was desperate to save my babies. We are so new at this, and want our tank to thrive. We will take all the advice we can and pray for the best. I do hope they can recover.

What do I do about them being dark and the greyish slim on them?? will that kill them?