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Thread: Discus. Facts and myths

  1. #16
    Registered Member 0Dgreen's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Honestly this debate can be made about an fish in the aquaria hobby, or any domesticated animal for that matter. So if we wanted to replicate what wolves eat in nature, we better start letting our dogs feed off of scavenged prey or live animals, It just isn't practial. I don't understand why people are constantly trying to re-invent the wheel, there are successful hobbists here who have been doing the same thing for years. I haven't been keeping discus nearly as long as most people on this site, but the success i have had is due to following procedues that have worked for them for many years. DONTKNOWYET, if you are interested in keeping discus, all of the information you need to be successful is here, Simplydiscus is a great source of information and the experienced hobbists here are more than willing to share their knowldege and support. Read up, look over all of the stickys, be patient and don't rush things.
    Mike

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    OK. Thanks for all your comments. I was only comparing to other species of fish that are normally fed what they eat in nature.
    Obviously discus fish keeping has developed into a completely different game. I just tried to find information about other, more natural approach but judging by the reaction on this forum, there won't be any documenting it here with the fear of being condemned.
    I didn't think it would make so many people angry asking a simple question and giving the raw reason why.

    By the way, there are people feeding their dogs diet that they supposedly have evolved to eat in nature. Some of these approaches are called BARF.

  3. #18
    Registered Member John_Nicholson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    I have literately produced thousands and thousands of discus. I get tired of people who have never contributed to this forum jumping in here and throwing a bunch of chit on the wall to see what sticks. If you want to prove something then please do. The trouble is you will post this and some other new person will read it and not realize that you don't have a clue. It might be the best thing since sliced bread or it may kill their fish. If you are so fired up about it put your money where your mouth is. Spend money on fish, spend money on tanks, spend money grinding up tree bark, spend your money and then come back and tell us how much you like your results. The way I do it has 50 years of results with discus in aquariums...all I am asking of you is provide a little effort into your beliefs. You come in here with a look I am a genius and I have found this article....Anyone can write an article and anyone that can use goggle can find it, but it does not prove a thing.

    -john
    Please check out http://forum.discusnada.org/

    SOS Crew Texas

  4. #19
    Registered Member Skip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    a varied diet is the best diet..

    live foods, frozen, flake, freeze dried..

    it is kind of hard to compare WILD DISCUS in the WILD to the Domestic Pigeon Blood discus.. that is NOT from the wild..
    Jester - S0S Crew Texas

  5. #20
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Quote Originally Posted by John_Nicholson View Post
    I have literately produced thousands and thousands of discus. I get tired of people who have never contributed to this forum jumping in here and throwing a bunch of chit on the wall to see what sticks. If you want to prove something then please do. The trouble is you will post this and some other new person will read it and not realize that you don't have a clue. It might be the best thing since sliced bread or it may kill their fish. If you are so fired up about it put your money where your mouth is. Spend money on fish, spend money on tanks, spend money grinding up tree bark, spend your money and then come back and tell us how much you like your results. The way I do it has 50 years of results with discus in aquariums...all I am asking of you is provide a little effort into your beliefs. You come in here with a look I am a genius and I have found this article....Anyone can write an article and anyone that can use goggle can find it, but it does not prove a thing.

    -john
    You are right an article does not prove a thing. I am asking if it was proven via experience too. I understand that you have 50 years of experience with the diet you do but I would like to compare yours with someone elses experience that has done it the "natural" way. I guess I won't be lucky enough so I'll put "my money where my mouth" goes I guess.
    And you killed my enthusiasm of every contributing to this forum.

  6. #21
    Registered Member Skip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Quote Originally Posted by DONTKNOWYET View Post
    I guess I won't be lucky enough so I'll put "my money where my mouth" goes I guess.
    And you killed my enthusiasm of every contributing to this forum.
    others have posted on this same exact topic.. the threads are somewhere... busy at work.. don't have time to search them..

    best of luck.. in what ever way you chose to feed your discus.. when ever you get some
    Jester - S0S Crew Texas

  7. #22
    Registered Member Chad Hughes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    DONTKNOWYET,

    Welcome to Simply Discus.

    I see you've been doing some reading and that's a great thing. Your initial post has been tossed around forums for years and we all know that what happens in nature and what happens in a fish tank are two different things. The point that John is trying to make is that, through years of experience, discus keepers have found what works and we typically stick to what works. Are there new things being tried? Constantly. Do they work? Not always.

    You have a lot of resources at your fingertips these days. You've referenced one source. There are many other sources of information, such as this forum, that will give you tried and true results in successful discus keeping.

    Heiko is a well-traveled hobbyist. Read his pages about his travels and what he's done. He's well accomplished but he's no PhD or Doctor. He is often listed as a speaker with those that carry credentials that may validate some of his conclusions but they are just that, conclusions. His books are his livelihood. How else could he afford to travel to the distant corners of the earth and live with the "natives". LOL!

    Anyway, keep studying, try what you like and disregard what you don't. Form your own conclusions just like Heiko.

    Sorry John was so rough on you. He's a cranky old man that's set in his ways. You'll learn that if you stick around after all of this. (No offense John!)

    Best wishes!
    Chad Hughes

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Thanks. I'll try to research more on the topic.

  9. #24
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Being a wilds keeper I do not really use a BH mix but then nor do I feed a "natural diet" per sa. I do feed a seafood mix which uses marine based foods vs freshwater based foods. The reason for this is the prevention of freshwater based pathogens. I also feed commerially based foods such as flake, FDBWs, marine based frozen foods and live red wigglers (non-aquatic). I guess there is not reason (IMO) to seek a more natural diet. The fish are healthy and spawning so everyone is happy.
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  10. #25
    Platinum Member Ryan's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    I wouldn't necessarily say that the discus hobby is different in regards to how we feed our fish. I primarily keep wild-caught cichlids and they all get fed pellet food (a combination of New Life Spectrum and Hikari) as their primary diet. These fish are breeding and growing well for me. I don't give them detritus to sift through, nor do I provide things like copepods, shrimp, or small fish that they may find in nature. I think you'll find most cichlid keepers are the same in this regard.

    There's nothing wrong with trying to recreate their wild conditions but at some point it becomes impractical. Where do you draw the line? You can set up a biotope tank, alter the water parameters to match the Amazon, feed more natural foods, buy lighting to simulate the seasons and the phases of the moon, etc. etc. but at the end of the day they're still in a glass box, and there's nothing natural about that. So it boils down to (for me): are my fish receiving the water quality and nutrition they require to thrive and breed? If I'm happy with what I'm doing and I'm seeing positive results, I'd say yes. I've been in this hobby since I was 6 and I don't think I'd still be here at 30 if I hadn't had success in keeping and breeding fish.

  11. #26
    Registered Member John_Nicholson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Oh and while I am cranky I am only 47...The 50 years of proof is though the work of many great discus pioneers.

    Chad no reason to worry about upsetting me. You know it would take a lot more than that. I just long for the good old days....back when we would hear/read of something new we would think about it, give it a try, and then let people know the results. It just seems that now days people think anything that they read on the net has to be correct and that they are somehow entitled to be given all the answers instead of thinking for themselves.

    -john
    Please check out http://forum.discusnada.org/

    SOS Crew Texas

  12. #27
    Registered Member Chad Hughes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    John,

    I get what you're trying to say. Your delivery wasn't the smoothest nor was the OPs delivery. So, two bad deliveries and we're off to the races!

    FYI you're prematurely cranky. LOL! The older we get the more we yearn for the "good old days".



    Quote Originally Posted by John_Nicholson View Post
    Oh and while I am cranky I am only 47...The 50 years of proof is though the work of many great discus pioneers.

    Chad no reason to worry about upsetting me. You know it would take a lot more than that. I just long for the good old days....back when we would hear/read of something new we would think about it, give it a try, and then let people know the results. It just seems that now days people think anything that they read on the net has to be correct and that they are somehow entitled to be given all the answers instead of thinking for themselves.

    -john
    Chad Hughes

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  13. #28
    Registered Member fredyx's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Well just to add some scientific studies that support the introduction of animal proteins in Discus fish diet:

    -Partial Characterization and activities of proteases from the digestive tract of discus fish (Symphysodon aequifasciata) Chong, Alexander S.C., Hashim, Roshada, Chow-Yang, Lee and Ali, Ahyaudin B. Aquaculture 203 (2002) pp. 321-333

    -Inhibition of protease activities in discus Symphysodon spp. By three plant meals Chong,Alexander, Hashim, Roshada and Ali Bin, Ahyaudin Aquaculture International 10 (2002)

    -Assessment of dry matter and protein digestibilities of selected raw ingredients by discus fish (Symphysodon aequifasciata) using in vivo and in vitro methods Chong, A.S.C., Hashim, R., Ali, A.B. Aquaculture Nutrition 8 (2002)

    These scientifics, namely dr. Chong devoted their time to scientifically prove that animal protein is the best source of proteins for discus fishes. Supporting John PoV, this has been proved by the vast majority of discus breeders around the world during decades -

    The main conclusion is that an ingestion of 50% of animal protein produces the optimum growth rate in discus fishes. Their digestive tract is more carnivore-omnivore than herbivore-omnivore.-

  14. #29
    Registered Member John_Nicholson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Hughes View Post
    John,

    I get what you're trying to say. Your delivery wasn't the smoothest nor was the OPs delivery. So, two bad deliveries and we're off to the races!

    FYI you're prematurely cranky. LOL! The older we get the more we yearn for the "good old days".

    Chad my delivery use to be much better and I was a lot less cranky but over time you just get wore out on some of this stuff.

    fredyx thanks for your post.

    -john
    Please check out http://forum.discusnada.org/

    SOS Crew Texas

  15. #30
    Registered Member Chad Hughes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    BOOM!

    Quote Originally Posted by fredyx View Post
    Well just to add some scientific studies that support the introduction of animal proteins in Discus fish diet:

    -Partial Characterization and activities of proteases from the digestive tract of discus fish (Symphysodon aequifasciata) Chong, Alexander S.C., Hashim, Roshada, Chow-Yang, Lee and Ali, Ahyaudin B. Aquaculture 203 (2002) pp. 321-333

    -Inhibition of protease activities in discus Symphysodon spp. By three plant meals Chong,Alexander, Hashim, Roshada and Ali Bin, Ahyaudin Aquaculture International 10 (2002)

    -Assessment of dry matter and protein digestibilities of selected raw ingredients by discus fish (Symphysodon aequifasciata) using in vivo and in vitro methods Chong, A.S.C., Hashim, R., Ali, A.B. Aquaculture Nutrition 8 (2002)

    These scientifics, namely dr. Chong devoted their time to scientifically prove that animal protein is the best source of proteins for discus fishes. Supporting John PoV, this has been proved by the vast majority of discus breeders around the world during decades -

    The main conclusion is that an ingestion of 50% of animal protein produces the optimum growth rate in discus fishes. Their digestive tract is more carnivore-omnivore than herbivore-omnivore.-
    Chad Hughes

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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