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Thread: Discus. Facts and myths

  1. #31
    Homesteader Skip's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Hughes View Post
    BOOM!
    Last edited by Skip; 04-08-2013 at 02:57 PM.
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  2. #32
    Silver Member Allwin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Decision depends on individual.. Always have question, why discus keeping is challenging..
    But, definitely a good read in knowing their digestion habits.. And chicken story is what we ends up with.

  3. #33
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Quote Originally Posted by DONTKNOWYET View Post
    ......If you don't have the experience of both methods, then why comment?
    I am looking for experienced opinion from someone that has done it both ways.
    Umm, there is such a thing as collective experience. One doesn't necessarily have to conduct experiments in order to value the experimentation and subsequent results of many other people's work. If that were not the case - where would we be in science my friend? What is the point of scientific discovery? This topic has been debated here, and else where, at great length over the years. Spend a bit of time reading here and other places and I'm sure you will find the answers for which you are looking. I read John's comments in exactly that spirit: either read up on it and see what the collective experience yields or do the experiments yourself and report back to add to the collective experience. Since you haven't already done that - studied all angles of the argument - it might lead one to wonder if you are looking for answers or just looking for answers that support an already polarized position. The way you present it - whether intentional or not - appears to be the latter.

    Adam

  4. #34
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    I am a very experienced fish keeper although I just recently started keeping discus. Just a few observations I have made and what has proven successful for me. Other methods also work but this is what I have concluded.

    1. Discus are no more difficult to keep than any other fish. In fact, my tropheus are more difficult to keep. The key is to know the fishes needs.
    2. The extremes of daily water changes, etc are not needed for discus if you have proper biological and mechanical filtration. An aquarium is a closed system. Therefore the end game of the nitrogen cycle is the build up of nitrates. Water changes in a closed system reduce the nitrates in the water. It also provides a replacement of minerals. I have found weekly water changes of 30 to 40 percent work very well and are much more realistic (especially for a very large tank).
    3. Fish are not people. Commercially prepared food is well balanced, vitamin fortified, and generally better overall for the fish than homemade food. I now only feed commercially prepared food as a staple and occasionally some bloodworms. Not to imply other homemade food is not good, just not necessary.
    4. Discus are very social creatures. They like interaction and are not skiddish at all. This is why I like to keep them in a large show tank.
    5. Do what works for you. Pass it on. People can draw their own conclusions on whether they think its good info or not.

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    I believe that once you keep discus longer and get a chance to see some really high quality ones that some of your views might change. Especially on the water changes. There are some good commercial foods but wait until you are feeding 10 or 20 75 gallon tanks and you will see why som many use a homemade formula.

    -john
    Please check out http://forum.discusnada.org/

    SOS Crew Texas

  6. #36
    SuperModerator Chad Hughes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    I concur with your post in mnay regards but I will make a few statements regarding assumptions.

    You're right, discus are no harder to keep than any other fish that has particular water requirements. These water requirements are MUCH easier to handle in LARGE tanks or systems. At one point my smallest was 110. I'd never maintain a discus tank smaller than that. Most folks keep about a 55 gallon tank. Water changes become a bit more necessary at that point.

    As for food, not all home made foods are created equal. Some are very plain without much more than raw ingredients. Some are fortified. Some may be better than commercial food for the $$.

    I'm happy to hear you say "draw your own conclusions". There is no discus manual. There are many guides byt no stupid proof method.

    Regards!

    Quote Originally Posted by dww-law View Post
    I am a very experienced fish keeper although I just recently started keeping discus. Just a few observations I have made and what has proven successful for me. Other methods also work but this is what I have concluded.

    1. Discus are no more difficult to keep than any other fish. In fact, my tropheus are more difficult to keep. The key is to know the fishes needs.
    2. The extremes of daily water changes, etc are not needed for discus if you have proper biological and mechanical filtration. An aquarium is a closed system. Therefore the end game of the nitrogen cycle is the build up of nitrates. Water changes in a closed system reduce the nitrates in the water. It also provides a replacement of minerals. I have found weekly water changes of 30 to 40 percent work very well and are much more realistic (especially for a very large tank).
    3. Fish are not people. Commercially prepared food is well balanced, vitamin fortified, and generally better overall for the fish than homemade food. I now only feed commercially prepared food as a staple and occasionally some bloodworms. Not to imply other homemade food is not good, just not necessary.
    4. Discus are very social creatures. They like interaction and are not skiddish at all. This is why I like to keep them in a large show tank.
    5. Do what works for you. Pass it on. People can draw their own conclusions on whether they think its good info or not.

  7. #37
    Registered Member MaiaDee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Quote Originally Posted by John_Nicholson View Post
    but wait until you are feeding 10 or 20 75 gallon tanks and you will see why som many use a homemade formula.

    -john
    Seriously, John, why always so hostile? And most of us average people out here aren't ever gonna have 10 or 20 tanks and have no desire to breed thousands of fish.

    I know I may be out of line here but I am appalled by the rudeness I see displayed here. You long for the "good old days"...does that mean before YOU read the same question a thousand times? Mr Wattley may have felt the same when you were a newby. Did you get the disrespect then that you give now?

    You are not obligated to answer every thread and it's not like the original poster called you personally to engage you in a debate, so I really think the attacks on him and a really interesting and informative article are completely off base, unnecessary and aggressively hostile. Sorry it offended you, but others, such as myself appreciate he took the time to post it. Sadly, it appears you have run off someone who seemed genuinely interested in discus and found something radically different in his research. Perhaps not new to YOU, but again, nothing is obligating you to read or respond.

    This is far from the first time I've witnessed the hostility and rudeness from a group of long term posters here and I cannot even begin to tell you how off-putting it is.

    Rant done.

  8. #38
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    John it is safe to say I will never have 20 tanks. My wife would have a heart attack. I only keep very large tanks now. Just my preference since I only keep discus for show. I only breed petrochromis red Bulus now as they are very rare, cost a fortune ($600 per WC adult) and yield a ton of money for 1 f1 fry. I have 22 breeders in a 220 gallon tank. Just pulled 47 fry from one female Saturday. These are the money makers. My 265 gallon discus tank is for show only. Although a few have paired up and spawned.

    Quote Originally Posted by John_Nicholson View Post
    I believe that once you keep discus longer and get a chance to see some really high quality ones that some of your views might change. Especially on the water changes. There are some good commercial foods but wait until you are feeding 10 or 20 75 gallon tanks and you will see why som many use a homemade formula.

    -john

  9. #39
    Registered Member John_Nicholson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Quote Originally Posted by MaiaDee View Post
    Seriously, John, why always so hostile? And most of us average people out here aren't ever gonna have 10 or 20 tanks and have no desire to breed thousands of fish.

    I know I may be out of line here but I am appalled by the rudeness I see displayed here. You long for the "good old days"...does that mean before YOU read the same question a thousand times? Mr Wattley may have felt the same when you were a newby. Did you get the disrespect then that you give now?

    You are not obligated to answer every thread and it's not like the original poster called you personally to engage you in a debate, so I really think the attacks on him and a really interesting and informative article are completely off base, unnecessary and aggressively hostile. Sorry it offended you, but others, such as myself appreciate he took the time to post it. Sadly, it appears you have run off someone who seemed genuinely interested in discus and found something radically different in his research. Perhaps not new to YOU, but again, nothing is obligating you to read or respond.

    This is far from the first time I've witnessed the hostility and rudeness from a group of long term posters here and I cannot even begin to tell you how off-putting it is.

    Rant done.
    So did you read all of the responses? First the article has no use for domestic fish and comes from a very, very weak source. Also others documented scientific studies that say the very same thing that I did.

    On the part you quoted from my response to dww-law there was nothing rude about it. He simply stated that he was fairly new to discus but here were his views. I stated that I thought some of those views might change once he had kept discus longer. What is rude about that?

    -john
    Please check out http://forum.discusnada.org/

    SOS Crew Texas

  10. #40
    Platinum Member lipadj46's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Seeing its other posts its obviously a troll

    sent from an undisclosed location using morse code
    --Don--

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    MaiaDee I have read your response again and wanted to ask you a question. I don't know you but like most people on the planet you are probably an expert in something. Does not matter what that something is for right now, but lets pretend it involves some sort of expensive live animal. You participate on a forum where you have invested 10+ years trying to help people have success with these animals. You have traveled around the country giving up your weekends giving talks, and help with a national club hosting shows. You then take the time to read a post and that post is from someone with no real experience and he is quoting someone of questionable morals at best. Now this "new" theory is one that makes the rounds every so often and it always ends the same. Either the person never really tries it and goes about their business or they do try it and kill or stunt the animal. Since they failed they never post their results. Now to make matters worse other new people are going to read the post and also mess up their animals.......would you give the person a pas sin the name of being PC? or would you stick your neck out in an attempt to keep others from reliving the same mistake that has been done hundreds of times before?

    -john
    Please check out http://forum.discusnada.org/

    SOS Crew Texas

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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Must be some epidermis thickness challenged people around to take offense to anything written in this thread.

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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    Oh, by the way, i feed a beef heart mix, it works, I don't care what anyone else thinks as they are my fish.
    If I want to try something different, I will, if someone wants to have a whinge it a whine, I won't care.

  14. #44
    Registered Member MaiaDee's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    John,

    In my opinion, you were rude from your very first post with this: "4 post and already we have decided that 99% of successful discus keepers are wrong. Hey if you what to do it differently then please do, but quit trying to tell everyone else what to do until you test and prove this BS."

    Personally, I did not see where anyone said anyone was wrong. Perhaps I didn't read as deeply into it as others did, I just saw really interesting information on what wild discus stomach contents were and some links to pics of pretty tanks. I just don't see the potential for so much "harm" as you seem to fear. Yeah, so the author of the article doesn't think discus should eat some of the things we all here feed our fish, but so what? That's cause to attack the person that asked about the information contained in the article?

    I understand your wide range of experience and I have seen you help others out with their fish. I've also seen you attack people out of your own misplaced frustration.

    To answer your question, no, actually, I don't really consider myself an expert of anything. I am knowledgeable about lots of stuff, but I'm no expert on anything. I did just go back to school though, so if I decide to specialize and do become expert, I'll let you know. I hope, if I obtain expert status, that I will understand that most people will never acquire my level of knowledge nor do they want to. You are an expert because you choose to be. You choose to be here and you choose your attitude.

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Discus. Facts and myths

    I disagree with some of that but you also have some valid concerns.

    -john
    Please check out http://forum.discusnada.org/

    SOS Crew Texas

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