Car Dealer rant

[John_Nicholson]

I hear ya, but most folks do not realize that on most vehicles the dealer is paying significantly less than the invoice price. If people do their research and really know where to look they can normally find out pretty close to what the dealership is really paying. I know everyone has to make a living but they do not have to make it all on me.

-john

[Kal-El]

Matt, you have the right mind set. I do the same when I buy car and never have any good experience either. The dealer rather sell the car to someone they can squeeze more money then work with people like us. I only have success buying car when the dealer has to clear out their lots for new models to come in. Only than will I get the car and price I want. Good luck and honestly don't let any dealer push you to buy into their games/price. When they want to sell the car they will sell it to you at your price or meet somewhere in the middle.

[Discus-n00b]

LOL.... I am a car salesman for Hyundai, there are truths to what some of what was said but there is also things that are said that are not. I could get on a soap box but will not...lol however, let me say this "the internet has changed the car buying experience for good or for bad, guess it depends on which side you are standing. There are several and most dealerships have an internet manager, that is all he or she does.
The stero typical car salesman or scum of the earth, like all jobs in retail, depends on who you are talking to, not ALL are like that. Now if you like I can discuss about truecars.com and invoice pricing and rebates, will be glad to.

John thats funny, I run into several people with your line of thinking and they leave making a friend with me. If you are up front an honest you will not have issues. Lets look at it this way,
this is the way I make a living, referrals, repeat customers and new ones. I dont work for free just like know one else does....

Ok off soap box...

Heres my problem with being upfront and honest.....the other side is hardly upfront and honest with me....its rare to find that in car sales, not impossible to find, but rare. If I told them what I wanted my payments to be per month (being upfront and honest) when they ask the first thing they do is go to their formula about how to work that to where they get the most $ and thats why I don't do it. If I'm going to be upfront and honest with a car salesman, I would expect the same back and the majority of the time that doesn't happen. I always go in with the attitude of, this guy is not my friend....I will be friendly but we will not be friends. I'm not a jerk or anything, unless they are just truly out of their mind.

Like I said I've found a really good salesman out in Nebraska. Not only is he a salesman but a Challenger enthusiast so he understands. The only thing holding me back is the wait time for a custom order from the factory. Its the end of the model year so the factory will be behind at least a month while it finishes up the 2013s.

[LizStreithorst]

You're between a rock and a hard place if you feel that your current vehicle is about to cost you a bundle. I always end up following my heart. It sounds like you have found a really good guy to work with. If I were in your shoes I'd take the chance, cross my fingers, and wait for the special order. But then, I don't have the sense I was born with.

[troysdiiscus]

Significantly less???? Well I will speak of Hyundai's ok, Lets say you are looking at a GLS Elantra with popular equipment package, car MSRP is 19,900. The theory that they are two different invoices, one they show you and the REAL one is a myth. On this car is has a total of $420 dollar mark up above invoice. So if the dealership sells you at invoice, then yes they are still making something on an almost 20k dollar vehicle, its called dealer hold back. Ok on this car it is $725 and yes dealerships have to charge DOC fee's by law and they do make money on that. Every car is different and so are the mark ups and hold backs. I could also get into floor planning, which every dealer has and pays interest after a certain time, so do they have incentives to sell old inventory, yes, no doubt. There are alot of behind the scenes that not every one can see.
Most salesman on new cars regardless of what price are paid a flat and trust me I am not making a house payment off your sale, NOT even close!! lol So if a dealer sales a new vehicle at what we call a net net deal, (which means they give you invoice and hold back) the only thing they make is some of DOC on a 20k vehicle.

I hear ya, but most folks do not realize that on most vehicles the dealer is paying significantly less than the invoice price. If people do their research and really know where to look they can normally find out pretty close to what the dealership is really paying. I know everyone has to make a living but they do not have to make it all on me.

-john

[Discus-n00b]

Also what about that lie about going to talk to the sales manager for like 1hr. Come onnnnn thats a coffee break. Thats why if I do have to go to the dealership I'll go straight to a manager, whos he going to go hang out with? Another manager? Hope he's fast and can catch me before I get in my car to leave.

[troysdiiscus]

LOL I hear ya, when I ask that question I am asking because there is no need to show you a SRT8 if you are looking for a base model charger payment, alot of things will effect that too many to go into.. I am not looking to eat at your cook outs and sit around a fire roasting marshmellows, but to know that I am here for you when a problem occurs and trust everything I said I would do, I will do.

Heres my problem with being upfront and honest.....the other side is hardly upfront and honest with me....its rare to find that in car sales, not impossible to find, but rare. If I told them what I wanted my payments to be per month (being upfront and honest) when they ask the first thing they do is go to their formula about how to work that to where they get the most $ and thats why I don't do it. If I'm going to be upfront and honest with a car salesman, I would expect the same back and the majority of the time that doesn't happen. I always go in with the attitude of, this guy is not my friend....I will be friendly but we will not be friends. I'm not a jerk or anything, unless they are just truly out of their mind.

Like I said I've found a really good salesman out in Nebraska. Not only is he a salesman but a Challenger enthusiast so he understands. The only thing holding me back is the wait time for a custom order from the factory. Its the end of the model year so the factory will be behind at least a month while it finishes up the 2013s.

[troysdiiscus]

Haha...well I guess there are NO need for salesman and the sales manager and GM are going to get one hell of a work out and when they sell vehicles at NET NET deals they can close the doors in a month......

Also what about that lie about going to talk to the sales manager for like 1hr. Come onnnnn thats a coffee break. Thats why if I do have to go to the dealership I'll go straight to a manager, whos he going to go hang out with? Another manager? Hope he's fast and can catch me before I get in my car to leave.

[John_Nicholson]

No they only have one invoice but they also get incentives and programs allowances from the manufacturer. The car dealer that pays invoice for a car they are selling is as common as unicorns....

-john

[troysdiiscus]

actually John your correct and incorrect. Some manufactures pay bonus cash (hyundai does not) over certain units, so if your budgeted for 110 new cars and you hit it they may pay out 500 per unit so if you are customer number 109 with an hour left in the month you WILL get a deal for real, if you are customer number 99, no. They are not as common as they once were. Now like hyundai's lets say you are the dealer you buy the car at invoice, you do, select models will have dealer cash, for hyundai its 500 again only on select models, so after 90 days you pay interest on the vehicle and that 500 is gone after 2 months past 90 days.

No they only have one invoice but they also get incentives and programs allowances from the manufacturer. The car dealer that pays invoice for a car they are selling is as common as unicorns....

-john

[John_Nicholson]

I guess I should have given myself a little more wiggle room. I am not familiar with Hyundai dealerships. I work for a computer company and we supply business systems to primarily farm dealerships. In many small towns the farm dealerships are also the automotive dealership so I can get more information than the average guy, but it is mostly just for GM, Ford, and Dodge.

-john

[troysdiiscus]

Let me say this lastly, NO ONE opens there own company to not make money' rather you open a LFS, build houses, sale houses and or work on computers. Not all car salesman are snakes in the grass, scum of the earth and are going straight to hell....if you think that was a hassle, you must not be a home owner because there are two major purchases you will make in your life, house and vehicle. Have you ever bought a house with out looking at it and sitting down with someone??? If so there is your unicorn....
When you that do sell fish, ever have someone haggle with you over price??????

[John_Nicholson]

LOL...Never called you a snake in the grass....After my last post I thought we would be good.

For the record I have bought 4 houses so far. Not sure how many cars/trucks. My fish are a hobby so I don't do a lot of price adjustments unless some one want to buy them in quantity. You need a couple hundred blue diamonds? If so I will cut you a deal...

-john

[Discus-n00b]

Haha...well I guess there are NO need for salesman and the sales manager and GM are going to get one hell of a work out and when they sell vehicles at NET NET deals they can close the doors in a month......

Well I mean come on, do they really need all those games? You are a salesman, you have to know generally about where the limits of selling a certain car is am I right? And you may not have the authority to validate a deal so sure, a visit to a manager might be needed....thats cool, but 30mins - 1hr only to come back with a counter offer or a no thanks? Maybe its all geared to the casual buyer that doesn't understand the system. But staying out of the room for 30mins-1hr and letting me "stew" isn't going to phase someone like me and its sure not going to make me cave...if anything you just turned me off to the whole deal. I'm all about giving the salesmen a chance, but if that chance isn't working I use the chain of command. Talked to a guy at a local dodge place, young kid...had to of been first real job after talking with him and spending some time on the lot and a test drive it was clear that this guy just wasn't going to work out. First thing he does when I get to his desk is has to move a giant pizza box from the chair and sweep crumbs off his desk. Then I tell him what I want, he taps on the computer for a minute and says no you can't order it like this, or I can't find any cars like that anywhere (when I already knew there was one 2hrs away). He didn't seem like he wanted to help me locate the car I wanted and didn't know to much about the car he was selling. I gave him the chance though just to see and it didn't work out.

LOL I hear ya, when I ask that question I am asking because there is no need to show you a SRT8 if you are looking for a base model charger payment, alot of things will effect that too many to go into.. I am not looking to eat at your cook outs and sit around a fire roasting marshmellows, but to know that I am here for you when a problem occurs and trust everything I said I would do, I will do.

I can understand that for a buyer who may not have any previous knowledge of the car. And its one of those things that often may of started off as an innocent good question but has since been turned into something of malice that is used against the buyer. If what you say is how you work then I commend you, because there aren't to many out there that are upfront and honest enough with buyers.

Not sure how different the car companies are for pricing, holdbacks, etc but I know for Dodge and a Challenger, Invoice minus rebates is basically a can't go wrong number as the buyer and even then most are getting even more off. This is where most should feel comfortable buying the car but with some negotiating SHOULD be able to get it lower factoring in holdbacks, trades, doc fees (SC has no rules/regulations on doc fees to my knowledge....some dealers here won't even charge it), etc. I would like to think someone like me is a dealer's dream, well not dream...their dream is the unsuspecting. But I would like to think i'm one of the easiest deals they have. This is what I want, credit is good, meet me in the middle of pricing (I'm not trying to screw you, you don't screw me) and I'm out the door, done you just sold a unit in a matter of minutes. Especially for a fleet or internet guy. I honestly don't see how it could get easier, maybe I'm just a dealer nightmare lol.

You can barter just about anything honestly. I've even seen it done in JCPenny. Doesn't mean its always going to work....lol

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Significantly less???? Well I will speak of Hyundai's ok, Lets say you are looking at a GLS Elantra with popular equipment package, car MSRP is 19,900. The theory that they are two different invoices, one they show you and the REAL one is a myth. On this car is has a total of $420 dollar mark up above invoice. So if the dealership sells you at invoice, then yes they are still making something on an almost 20k dollar vehicle, its called dealer hold back. Ok on this car it is $725 and yes dealerships have to charge DOC fee's by law and they do make money on that. Every car is different and so are the mark ups and hold backs. I could also get into floor planning, which every dealer has and pays interest after a certain time, so do they have incentives to sell old inventory, yes, no doubt. There are alot of behind the scenes that not every one can see.
Most salesman on new cars regardless of what price are paid a flat and trust me I am not making a house payment off your sale, NOT even close!! lol So if a dealer sales a new vehicle at what we call a net net deal, (which means they give you invoice and hold back) the only thing they make is some of DOC on a 20k vehicle.

This is very true.

Also, if you purchase an extended warranty the dealer can make a bundle on that if you do not negotiate that down. For instance, most extended warranties on an average car should only cost $500.00 to $900.00 but they charge $1800.00.