Why dont discus keepers do automatic water changes more often?

[DLFL]

uarujoey, how about a link to this?

I got together with Bulk reef supply and did a challenge video. I put my own additional spin on it and came up with a project on how to have a drip system without drilling your tank, without making changes to your house, without having a drain for excess water, without needing a constant water supply, and keeping it up $150.

[uarujoey]

uarujoey, how about a link to this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XtekO7RRRcA

[DLFL]

thank you!

[Tres]

Thanks for doing this thread dkeef, and for various reasons I'm next intending to include a drip system, at the very least. That's not necessarily in lieu of WC's, but I need a fail-safe backup option for when I'm not available to do WC's or am away.

Can you perhaps fill us in better on your equipment list, costs of each item, a diagram of how it works, and/or photos?

I'm looking for a safe simple option, though a lot of auto-waterchangers seem incredibly complicated and fraught with many potential points of failure. It seems there should be the potential to simplify this considerably. Someone had joked earlier about it, but toilet flushing mechanisms seem to have a far superior track record of not causing catastrophic floods in houses compared to hobbyist auto-waterchangers. And I'm not necessarily seeing a reason why the same hardware for instance couldn't be incorporated into an easy/automated system which is safe and reliable. (I could plumb/overflow direct to a drain).

I've seen videos as well of one guy's auto change system which works via an overflow. When the timer triggers it, it cuts the electricity to filters and pumps to stop tank circulation, new water is gently filled in at a temperature 1-2 degrees lower than tank temperature and therefore stays at the bottom of the tank and pushes the older water up and out of the overflow. And that is for a reef tank where stability of parameters is paramount. (I doubt many discus keepers manage to get their new water any closer than 2 degrees of the existing tank water anyway). I haven't carried out computation fluid dynamics modelling, of course, but I suspect the same strategy could achieve say a 50% water change while relying purely upon an overflow to remove old tank water.

I am however liking the idea of having a tank bottom angled down to a grated drainage point to automatically remove all detritus as well...

[dkeef]

I truly was planning on auto drip system but then found out the cost of electricity to keep water warm all the time from cold water dripping has made me decide not to.
I did simply the wc to pressing buttons and hooking up hose from aging water storage so it takes me very little effort.
But if one has house water heater where u can drip warm water or electric cost is not an issue then I would drip like Joey

[dbfzurowski]

Hi there
Its kinda getting old hearing that it can't be done or it doesn't work... I've had some kind of a fish tank for about 22 years now, discus about 5 years now.

I've had my auto wc up and running for about 8 months now. 125Gal tank, 55Gal sump with 20Gal WC everyday. Someone posted a chart on how the nitrate builds up unless you do 100% WC. Well, my system does ~9% daily and after 8 months nitrate is at 20ppm... Its not overstocked but has a decent number of fish; 5 adult discus, 5 young red heads, 40-60 tetras, green phantom pleco, golden nugget pleco ,bristlenose pleco, 2 German blue rams and 2 cory cats.
Expensive electric water valve? $35 on ebay + $10 24V transformer.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-4-Electric...-/290579694395
Float valve was about the same.

Think I paid more in plumbing then anything else. People say it doesn't work? I haven't wiped inside of the tank or siphoned the sand once. Clean the micro sock once every 2 weeks or so.
I truly believe that good filtration is key! If I had a 55Gal with 2 sponge filters this system would not work. Sorry but I am not a fan of sponge filters. You still need to do 100% WC with them? Whats the point?
I have two pairs in my tank that spawn regularly so I guess it can't be that bad.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...d-full-auto-WC

Don't mean to start s*** here but new discus people come here and are told that auto WC doesn't work. I think new discus keepers would benefit the most! I know I would, I know my fish would when I started.

[nc0gnet0]

Those same people would tell you that 20 ppm nitrate is to high....just saying.

I truly believe that good filtration is key

Removing the waste from the water stream is the key, not just removing it from your sight, sticking it some type of filter material and having the water filter through this waste.......

[Len]

Hi there
Its kinda getting old hearing that it can't be done or it doesn't work... I've had some kind of a fish tank for about 22 years now, discus about 5 years now.

I've had my auto wc up and running for about 8 months now. 125Gal tank, 55Gal sump with 20Gal WC everyday. Someone posted a chart on how the nitrate builds up unless you do 100% WC. Well, my system does ~9% daily and after 8 months nitrate is at 20ppm... Its not overstocked but has a decent number of fish; 5 adult discus, 5 young red heads, 40-60 tetras, green phantom pleco, golden nugget pleco ,bristlenose pleco, 2 German blue rams and 2 cory cats.
Expensive electric water valve? $35 on ebay + $10 24V transformer.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-4-Electric...-/290579694395
Float valve was about the same.

Think I paid more in plumbing then anything else. People say it doesn't work? I haven't wiped inside of the tank or siphoned the sand once. Clean the micro sock once every 2 weeks or so.
I truly believe that good filtration is key! If I had a 55Gal with 2 sponge filters this system would not work. Sorry but I am not a fan of sponge filters. You still need to do 100% WC with them? Whats the point?
I have two pairs in my tank that spawn regularly so I guess it can't be that bad.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...d-full-auto-WC

Don't mean to start s*** here but new discus people come here and are told that auto WC doesn't work. I think new discus keepers would benefit the most! I know I would, I know my fish would when I started.

The formula you are referring to regarding WC volume is flawed. It would only be accurate if the were no biological filtration happening. That being said, 20ppm nitrate is high and something as simple as siphoning the sand regularly would improve that greatly. If you haven't siphoned it in that long you'd be surprised how much stuff was trapped in it. The other thing to be careful of is if it is deep enough it will become anaerobic so you'd want to siphon it carefully and not disturb it too much until it is clean or risk stirring up nasties into the water column.

[Ryan]

There are some cichlids who would end up with HITH if nitrates stayed 20ppm for extended periods of time.

[kris2341]

20ppm with that kind of low stocking level and that quantity of wasted water sounds insane. I personally would stick to the more traditional methods otherwise. 9% a day without touching the substrate, I may as well siphon the tank weekly and drain 60-70% water and get a greater amount of clean.

Vacuuming and general maintenance can be done in a way that isnt strenuous since the tank looks like it has a drain built in since you are showing a solenoid, just modify it so you can hook a siphon to it and just wave it around inside. some substrate siphoning is better than none at all until the thing goes anaerobic and you have to totally stir everything up and drain ALL the water out.

[bluelagoon]

Most of folks have their tanks in living quarters;mine are in my living room.It must look hideous with all the hoses,especially if your living in an apt.Might be great for basements or outside sheds.At some point you'll need to change 100% of the water anyways.

[jawfish]

Hi there
Its kinda getting old hearing that it can't be done or it doesn't work... I've had some kind of a fish tank for about 22 years now, discus about 5 years now.

I've had my auto wc up and running for about 8 months now. 125Gal tank, 55Gal sump with 20Gal WC everyday. Someone posted a chart on how the nitrate builds up unless you do 100% WC. Well, my system does ~9% daily and after 8 months nitrate is at 20ppm... Its not overstocked but has a decent number of fish; 5 adult discus, 5 young red heads, 40-60 tetras, green phantom pleco, golden nugget pleco ,bristlenose pleco, 2 German blue rams and 2 cory cats.
Expensive electric water valve? $35 on ebay + $10 24V transformer.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/3-4-Electric...-/290579694395
Float valve was about the same.

Think I paid more in plumbing then anything else. People say it doesn't work? I haven't wiped inside of the tank or siphoned the sand once. Clean the micro sock once every 2 weeks or so.
I truly believe that good filtration is key! If I had a 55Gal with 2 sponge filters this system would not work. Sorry but I am not a fan of sponge filters. You still need to do 100% WC with them? Whats the point?
I have two pairs in my tank that spawn regularly so I guess it can't be that bad.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...d-full-auto-WC

Don't mean to start s*** here but new discus people come here and are told that auto WC doesn't work. I think new discus keepers would benefit the most! I know I would, I know my fish would when I started.

Thanks Dominik for the link, this is the type of valves I want to experience with.

[Tres]

I truly was planning on auto drip system but then found out the cost of electricity to keep water warm all the time from cold water dripping has made me decide not to.
I did simply the wc to pressing buttons and hooking up hose from aging water storage so it takes me very little effort.
But if one has house water heater where u can drip warm water or electric cost is not an issue then I would drip like Joey

I wasn't quite clear how you were talking about preheating the water. With a reservoir system I would have thought it was just a matter of sticking an extra aquarium water heater in that, which should take less electricity than your tank's heater. And with a continuous drip system even, you could just fill a 5 gallon bucket with coils of the supply line tubing, water, and put a heater there so that the warmed bucket water would warm the incoming water passing through the supply line, to act as a heat exchanger. Had you been thinking of some other type of system or were you thinking that it would take a lot of electricity or gas to heat the incoming water up?

[dbfzurowski]

Sorry, guess I wasn't clear about the sand. I do not siphon it because there is no debris on top of it with my overflow sucking up water from the bottom of the tank. I stir the sand every 1-2 weeks to prevent anaerobic build up even tho I only keep the sand at about 1.5-2".
My tap is around 20ppm nitrate and never had problems with Discus. I'm new to red heads so hopefully I wont have HITH issues.

Jawfish,

If you do get one, make sure its a normally closed valve. Meaning it opens when energized. Everything always has to be power failure proof.


Kris,

Not everyone has time for manual tank maintenance. 60% WC on a 180Gal system would take to long. This works for me and my fish.

[dellis]

i have read this thread and lots of research is anyone doing this i have started one but i also do about a 90% water change twice a week
i know the large wc are great. but is there any real benefit to my 25 gallon a day change on my auto changer

tank is 125 gallon with a 75 gallon sump holding about 50 gallons