Setting Up 90 Gallon For Discus

[JEden8]

So I currently have a 90 gallon setup with Boesemani Rainbow's that I'm looking to switch over to Discus. Here is what it currently looks like:



My goal is to get everything changed before I purchase any Discus. Here are my current tank specs:

Tank Specs:
48 x 18 x 25 (90 US Gallons)

Equipment:
Rena FilStar XP3
Current LED+ Lighting
Pressurized C02 with Ista Max Mix
Coralife 8 watt 3x Turbo Twist UV Sterilizer
Hydro Koralia 425

Flora:
Java Fern
Amazon Sword
Multiple Crypts
Anubias
Glosso
Jungle Val
Hygro

My main areas of concern are:

1.) Filtration; Do I have enough or should I add something else? If so, what should I add? Do I just switch to an overflow system with a trickle filter?
2.) Substrate; Do I change out all of the black gravel to a white sand to reduce the risk of peppering? If so, what is the best sand to use? Pool filter sand or something else?
3.) Background; Leave it clear or paint it blue?

Anything else that I may have missed? I'm just wanting to do this right the first time. If it includes dropping some cash then that's what it is and it'll just take me a little longer to get the Discus. I have this posted on another forum but I just came across this forum and thought it would be a better response since the forum is all about Discus. Thanks everyone!

[DiscusLoverJeff]

Just please get your discus from a sponser here. There are some great deals in the sponser section.

The setup is awesome! Almost a planted discus tank already.

[camuth8]

Just please get your discus from a sponser here. There are some great deals in the sponser section.

The setup is awesome! Almost a planted discus tank already.

+1

[Discusdude7]

I use to have black Eco complete and it caused my fish to darken/pepper. After switching to pool filter sand the peppering got lighter and so did the discus.

[Fish from Philly]

The set up is REALLY nice. Rather than changing it out and having to redo it all (I know it can be fun...) why not just add discus that don't pepper? The seller should have knowledge before selling them to you. For instance, I bought mine from Hans and he said straight out don't get pigeon bloods because they will pepper with my dark background. I ended up getting turqs, snakeskin, and flachen all which don't pepper. The fire red has developed darker fins and a few spots on the head but not major and would buy him again if given chance. I know the leopards also don't pepper and he has some of the nicest I've seen. Hans is a sponsor on this site and I would recommend him over and over (but many here have had great experiences with others sponsors too)

As for your questions, here is my advice based on my experience:
Filtration - You can never have too much and I'd say you're at the minimum requirement with turning over the water about 4 times an hour. Personally, unless you have the money, I would spend on discus first and if need be eventually get another filter. Nitrates need to be low (under 10) so the more you feed, more fish you have, more poop, etc the more often you'll have to clean it out. Just test water for nitrates and when you have it consistent under 10 with a normal water change regime, you're good! If you start seeing nitrates creep up and you're still doing same water changes, you probably have too much crap in filter and need to give it a rinse.

Substrate: If you're going to change substrate, pool filter sand is cheaper and has right size grain. Play sand is too fine. You may want to get some root tabs for the swords and vals. You can definitely keep some of the eco complete under the sand but only do this in the back where substrate is deep (1-2" eco and then 2" sand on top). For the front, avoid using any eco because when you vacuum, it will mix up and not look as good.

Background: I have a blue background (admittedly darker blue) and am going to change it to light blue or maybe even black to look like shadows and have all the fish pop. You may consider adding some stem plants to hide the equipment or do black also to have it blend in better.

Only other thing I would say is for tank mates since you have a planted tank, you should get small school of cory sterb for cleaning up uneaten food. You may also consider some dither fish like rummys or cardinals. Personally I think it adds to the tank but other discus enthusiasts will say it takes away from the discus. I suppose it is a preference.

Keep reading and asking questions! Best way to learn...

My tank:http://imgur.com/a/8pMKU#0

[blueluv]

Beautiful planted aquarium! Are you planning on adding an air stone ? Also, is your return line from your rena hooked up to a spray bar? I agree with Jeff, buy from a sponsor here.

[Crunchy]

Planted tank: get young adults. At least 5 inches and it'll be less hassle.

[blueluv]

Planted tank: get young adults. At least 5 inches and it'll be less hassle.

I would go with 6"+

[Fish from Philly]

Hans has some "jumbos" in that are 7"+!! $300 a pop but that is a serious size.

When I got my original six discus, I got two 4", two 5", and two 6". I noticed now that the smaller ones don't get as much food because the larger ones shoo them away. Coincidentally it is the smaller ones that need to eat the most to grow!

+1 to Blue and Crunchy for pointing out larger sizes needed. I'll just add that you should stick with same size too so that everyone has fair playing field to get food.

[jmf3460]

I am slightly ahead of you in this type of situation. I have had planted tanks with rainbows, tetras, plecos, and livebearers for years now but wanted to throw some discus in with the mix. The tank I wanted to turn into a planted discus tank is a 46 gallon bowfront. It has black floramax substrate with tons of bacopa, sword plants, crypts, altelanthera, lobelia, and donnoi. The tank has a Marineland Aquatic Plant LED system and two HOB fluval filters. It has DIY yeast CO2 and I dose daily with API CO2 booster.

So here I go (about 1.5 months ago) and get 5 discus fish, 3.5 inches and up. I got two pigeon snakeskins, two leopards and one huge golden albino discus. All looked lovely but I noticed that they didn't have much swimming room amongst all my plants. Not only that but they preferred the shadows behind the plants and behind the bigger pieces of driftwood. I also soon learned how hard it was to syhpon all the gravel with so many plants. It only took about 2 weeks before I was taking out driftwood and uprooting plants to allow for more swimming room.

In the end, I have moved all my plants into pots (I use little glass jars and bowls with aquarium sealant on the bottom to keep from glass on glass contact), seriously cut down on the amount of plants and done away with all the stem plants in general. I have also moved all the plants onto one side of the aquarium so that the other side is totally bare for the discus to swim around in. I left a very thin layer of gravel in the bottom as I do not like the look of bare bottom tanks.

Although the fish are happy in this setup, I am not. I am currently setting up a 75 gallon tank with a sand substrate, manzanita wood pieces and no plants at all (or at least I will try for no plants) I have found that it is just too hard to maintain a fully planted tank and keep the water as clean and pure as the discus like it. What im planning on doing is when I move the discus to the 75 gallon tank, setting the 46 gallon bowfront back up as densly planted with stem plants and all and moving my tetra and rainbow collection from their 30 gallon hexagon planted tank. Then I will have a 30 gallon hexagon planted tank to stock...hmm.

I just love the look of your tank, it would maintain some adult discus, but I would strongly suggest removing some of the plants to just make gravel vacuuming a bit easier.

[IMG]tankshot 2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]discustank.jpg[/IMG]

This is what my tank went from within 1.5 months after observing my discus and trying to accommodate to them.

GOOD LUCK
Jacklyn

[JEden8]

Just please get your discus from a sponser here. There are some great deals in the sponser section.

The setup is awesome! Almost a planted discus tank already.

HAHA I plan to after doing some looking around at what everyone is selling on here! I would prefer to buy from someone that is local instead of dealing with shipping and all that. So anyone in the Tampa area let me know!

Thank you for the compliment!

I use to have black Eco complete and it caused my fish to darken/pepper. After switching to pool filter sand the peppering got lighter and so did the discus.

Good to know! I have mock-up of changing out some of the substrate that I will post up once I hit all of the replies to get some opinons. It involves adding sand and painting the background blue. How often is your sand getting dirty? Back when I first started planted tanks I used PFS and it was constantly growing algae and whatnot on it. Anything that is better than the others?

The set up is REALLY nice. Rather than changing it out and having to redo it all (I know it can be fun...) why not just add discus that don't pepper? The seller should have knowledge before selling them to you. For instance, I bought mine from Hans and he said straight out don't get pigeon bloods because they will pepper with my dark background. I ended up getting turqs, snakeskin, and flachen all which don't pepper. The fire red has developed darker fins and a few spots on the head but not major and would buy him again if given chance. I know the leopards also don't pepper and he has some of the nicest I've seen. Hans is a sponsor on this site and I would recommend him over and over (but many here have had great experiences with others sponsors too)

As for your questions, here is my advice based on my experience:
Filtration - You can never have too much and I'd say you're at the minimum requirement with turning over the water about 4 times an hour. Personally, unless you have the money, I would spend on discus first and if need be eventually get another filter. Nitrates need to be low (under 10) so the more you feed, more fish you have, more poop, etc the more often you'll have to clean it out. Just test water for nitrates and when you have it consistent under 10 with a normal water change regime, you're good! If you start seeing nitrates creep up and you're still doing same water changes, you probably have too much crap in filter and need to give it a rinse.

Substrate: If you're going to change substrate, pool filter sand is cheaper and has right size grain. Play sand is too fine. You may want to get some root tabs for the swords and vals. You can definitely keep some of the eco complete under the sand but only do this in the back where substrate is deep (1-2" eco and then 2" sand on top). For the front, avoid using any eco because when you vacuum, it will mix up and not look as good.

Background: I have a blue background (admittedly darker blue) and am going to change it to light blue or maybe even black to look like shadows and have all the fish pop. You may consider adding some stem plants to hide the equipment or do black also to have it blend in better.

Only other thing I would say is for tank mates since you have a planted tank, you should get small school of cory sterb for cleaning up uneaten food. You may also consider some dither fish like rummys or cardinals. Personally I think it adds to the tank but other discus enthusiasts will say it takes away from the discus. I suppose it is a preference.

Keep reading and asking questions! Best way to learn...

My tank:http://imgur.com/a/8pMKU#0

Thanks Philly! I didn't know that only the pigeon bloods had issues with peppering. I'm still new to Discus and learning the names of them all. I know that I want to do a mix of Blue and Red Discus. I'm looking online right now to get an idea of the types I really would like to get. I appologize if I butcher any names as I'm just using good ol' Google here. The Royal Blue Discus and the Red Rio Discus or something along those lines. I'd like to get something with similar body stripes/spots but in the red and blue variations.

The reason I was looking at adding more filtration is due to me wanting the tank to be completely taken care of before I introduce any Discus. I don't want to spread myself thin by purchasing the Discus and then have problems and/or possibly lose any of them due to not enough filtration. Now I do have an option. I have a 27 Gallon Cube that I run a Rena XP1 on for my cherry shrimp tank. I could take that off of that tank and purchase a HOB filter for that tank and add that filter to this tank. Don't know if that will make any difference or not but it was an idea that I had. The tank has been up and running now for a few years now and my parameters have been pretty good up until recently but I think it's because of lack of water flow. I'll go into that more in the substrate response.

So one of the reasons I'm looking at redoing the substrate is because ever since I put Glosso in my tank, detritus has been building up like crazy and I haven't been able to get as much of it cleaned as I would like. Now I know that detritus in a planted tank isn't that big of a deal but it's getting excessive in my opinion. I've been trying to clean it and I've uprooted majority of my Glosso now and a lot of it has started to die off. The other part is that with me getting my new Current LED+ light fixture, I know that I most likely will not have enough light in the tank for it to grow so having a carpet in the front is out as of right now. Unless this Glosso grows that is. Then I may consider keeping it haha. I've always liked the look of white sand but it's such a PITA to keep clean. Again, looking for any suggestions other than PFS that will stay white at least a little longer.

Planning on painting the background to hide all of my equipment that you see through the glass.

I have a group of breeding cories in the tank already that work wonders for my cleanup crew. I also have a few whisker shrimp to help out as well. I just picked up some Pristella Tetras a few weeks ago that you can see over the left piece of driftwood that are pretty cool. They are mainly hiding now for some reason now though. They schooled really tightly and don't distract from the Boesemani's. Would you keep some of the Boesemani's or get rid of them in a Discus tank?

Good looking tank too!

Beautiful planted aquarium! Are you planning on adding an air stone ? Also, is your return line from your rena hooked up to a spray bar? I agree with Jeff, buy from a sponsor here.

Thanks Blue! Is an air stone necessary? If so, since I'm injecting C02, should I run an air stone at night to help de-gass the tank every night? It is hooked up to a spray bar. Up until a couple of days ago I had it vertically in the back left corner. I now have it how I used to run it which is horizontally on the left side of the glass. I also have a Hydor Koralia water circulation pump on the back right corner to create a constant flow of water to keep it moving as much as possible.

Planted tank: get young adults. At least 5 inches and it'll be less hassle.

Why do you say at least 5"?

Hans has some "jumbos" in that are 7"+!! $300 a pop but that is a serious size.

When I got my original six discus, I got two 4", two 5", and two 6". I noticed now that the smaller ones don't get as much food because the larger ones shoo them away. Coincidentally it is the smaller ones that need to eat the most to grow!

+1 to Blue and Crunchy for pointing out larger sizes needed. I'll just add that you should stick with same size too so that everyone has fair playing field to get food.

I will definitley keep that in mind with adding all the same sizes!

I would go with 6"+

And why would you go with at least 6"? HAHA

I am slightly ahead of you in this type of situation. I have had planted tanks with rainbows, tetras, plecos, and livebearers for years now but wanted to throw some discus in with the mix. The tank I wanted to turn into a planted discus tank is a 46 gallon bowfront. It has black floramax substrate with tons of bacopa, sword plants, crypts, altelanthera, lobelia, and donnoi. The tank has a Marineland Aquatic Plant LED system and two HOB fluval filters. It has DIY yeast CO2 and I dose daily with API CO2 booster.

So here I go (about 1.5 months ago) and get 5 discus fish, 3.5 inches and up. I got two pigeon snakeskins, two leopards and one huge golden albino discus. All looked lovely but I noticed that they didn't have much swimming room amongst all my plants. Not only that but they preferred the shadows behind the plants and behind the bigger pieces of driftwood. I also soon learned how hard it was to syhpon all the gravel with so many plants. It only took about 2 weeks before I was taking out driftwood and uprooting plants to allow for more swimming room.

In the end, I have moved all my plants into pots (I use little glass jars and bowls with aquarium sealant on the bottom to keep from glass on glass contact), seriously cut down on the amount of plants and done away with all the stem plants in general. I have also moved all the plants onto one side of the aquarium so that the other side is totally bare for the discus to swim around in. I left a very thin layer of gravel in the bottom as I do not like the look of bare bottom tanks.

Although the fish are happy in this setup, I am not. I am currently setting up a 75 gallon tank with a sand substrate, manzanita wood pieces and no plants at all (or at least I will try for no plants) I have found that it is just too hard to maintain a fully planted tank and keep the water as clean and pure as the discus like it. What im planning on doing is when I move the discus to the 75 gallon tank, setting the 46 gallon bowfront back up as densly planted with stem plants and all and moving my tetra and rainbow collection from their 30 gallon hexagon planted tank. Then I will have a 30 gallon hexagon planted tank to stock...hmm.

I just love the look of your tank, it would maintain some adult discus, but I would strongly suggest removing some of the plants to just make gravel vacuuming a bit easier.

[IMG]tankshot 2.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]discustank.jpg[/IMG]

This is what my tank went from within 1.5 months after observing my discus and trying to accommodate to them.

GOOD LUCK
Jacklyn

Glad to see someone else with the same situation! HAHA I don't want to completely get rid of all of my plants. I know what you mean with overgrown tanks and when the fish have no room to swim around. I can't find a pic of the tank of how bad it got at one point. So what I'm getting from reading your post is that you wouldn't change anything correct? I would at least like to drain the tank and rinse the substrate out a bit. As I posted above, after this I'm going to post a Microsoft Paint photo of possible changes with adding sand to the front. Definitley open to suggestions! Oh! And I can't see your pics for some reason...

Thanks again everyone for the replies!

[JEden8]

So here is a picture of what I was potentially looking at:

[Fish from Philly]

I would recommend getting all discus from same breeder. For instance, if you go with Hans you probably shouldn't mix with Kennys. I have spoken to Kenny and he is really great but I bought from Hans because I could visit his store in MD whereas Kenny is in Cali. Hans is awesome at helping out (he was up with me at 2 AM giving me advice! and has AMAZING fish.

JEden8 cool pic!

The water changes you'll have to do with smaller fish to get them to grow large is excessive. If you're new, it's much better to get larger 5"+ (go with 6" if you can afford). Especially in immature planted tank you will go crazy cleaning substrate.

Your filter will likely provide enough oxygen to the tank without an air bubbler. You could also age the water with an air stone so your adding O filled water

Not sure about the other corys and tetras you listed. You will need 84 degrees for discus (even 86 for smaller ones because it increases metabolism and gets them to eat and grow). Rainbows would be too boisterous and discus will be scared. Consider a shyer fish like cardinals, rummys, and ram cichlids. Not to take away much from discus, but I got some very cool rams at the nicer fish store in NJ and in philly suburb that have amazing color. In addition to a beautiful male GBR, I have 2 electric blue rams, 2 gold rams, and a neon blue gold ram. All have slightly different colorations and do great with higher temp.

[strawberryblonde]

The reason that people are suggesting buying large sub-adults or adult discus is because they will require fewer feedings per day and thereby reduce the amount of crud that builds up in and under the driftwood and plants.

Basic feeding guidelines (everyone does this a little differently)

Juvies - under 4" - 5-6 feedings per day

Sub Adults - 4"-6" - 3 feedings per day

Adults - 6"-9" - 2 feedings per day

Most people start out with juvie discus simply because the cost is lower, but for a planted tank you'll find that you get results pretty much equal to jmf's experience. This was my experience too, and I started out with sub-adults. Didn't take long for me to start removing problematic plants, then substrate, then plants in pots, then driftwood with crevices that could catch and hold rotting food.

So long as you are purchasing large sub-adults you should be able to get away with a heavily planted tank. Just realize that even with only 3 feedings per day you will still need to get into the tank and clean well if you want to keep them healthy while they are growing to adulthood.

Oh and discus grow for about 2 years which means that a 5"-6" sub adult is going to grow for another year after you purchase them. =)

[Fish from Philly]

Oh and not sure what kind of shrimp you have but won't be long before discus get to them...

I had 2 dozen cherry shrimp in tank before adding discus. They seemed fine for a while but now that I've had discus for about 2 months, I think I have 2 left?

I have a few amanos in there now. They seem to be OK although temp is probably a bit high for them.