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Thread: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Reactor

  1. #16
    Registered Member musicmarn1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Rea

    Wow, was also looking at sand filters for about $100 both for sand and one for purigen, I made my own reactor!! Very poor attempt, the flow rate is to high but I just used a moving kaldness home made bed filter and covered it in stockings can't come out and I just replace stockings when I recharge! Simple! But yes want to try sand, do love the k1 filters I made too

  2. #17

    Default Re: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Rea

    Paul,

    Have you written Part 5? I cannot find a link to it.

  3. #18
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    Default Re: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Rea

    Quote Originally Posted by OC Discus View Post
    Paul,

    Have you written Part 5? I cannot find a link to it.
    When I first considered putting this together, I planned a Part 5, but later decided not to.

    Paul

  4. #19

    Default Re: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Rea

    Thanks


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  5. #20

    Default Re: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Rea

    Paul

    You said there are other ways to do a Puritan reactor. After pondering your comments on how water does not flow freely through the pouches I decided to try something. I got my magnum 350 out of storage, put a clean micron filter in it, then placed four pouches of Purigen around the filter. Once it was up and running I noticed the water moving through the pouches causing the beads to roll or float. The larger amount 400 ml seems appropriate since the flow rate is still not as good as in a reactor. So far so good. Thanks. I ll report again in a few days.


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  6. #21
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    Default Re: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Rea

    Quote Originally Posted by OC Discus View Post
    Paul

    You said there are other ways to do a Puritan reactor. After pondering your comments on how water does not flow freely through the pouches I decided to try something. I got my magnum 350 out of storage, put a clean micron filter in it, then placed four pouches of Purigen around the filter. Once it was up and running I noticed the water moving through the pouches causing the beads to roll or float. The larger amount 400 ml seems appropriate since the flow rate is still not as good as in a reactor. So far so good. Thanks. I ll report again in a few days.


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    OC Discus,

    Sounds really interesting. Can you take a video and share it with us? Would really like to see it.

    Paul

  7. #22

    Default Re: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Rea

    Here is a short video of the Mag. 350 canister with 4 purigen pouches. You have to look closely or enlarge, but you can see the beads being rolled around by the water. Less contact than a reactor, but with 4 pouches maybe I will see some benefit.


    Last edited by OC Discus; 02-26-2014 at 10:58 PM.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Rea

    Quote Originally Posted by OC Discus View Post
    Here is a short video of the Mag. 350 canister with 4 purigen pouches. You have to look closely or enlarge, but you can see the beads being rolled around by the water. Less contact than a reactor, but with 4 pouches maybe I will see some benefit.



    OC Discus,

    Thank you very much for the video. The Purigen beads are clearly moving, and it appears that there is sufficient contact between the water and the beads, especially since you have four bags in the canister (can't see the other three bags very well, so I'm assuming the bead motion in the others are the same). The next question to be answered is: will this amount of water flow continue for a month? The bag mesh is pretty small, and hopefully it won't get blocked.

    Can't tell if your Magnum 350 is set up to operate with an aquarium with fish in it, so I'm going to assume that it is. Just be aware that the first thing that is going to happen is that the Purigen is going to cause the feces to dissolve and disintegrate. Now all of this material is going to go somewhere. In my setup, here's what happens: the organic compounds are absorbed by the Purigen, the suspended solids are captured by the pleated canister filter, and the dissolved solids are flushed out by the water exchange. In my filtration system the mechanical filtration and the biofilter are separated, thus the suspended solids do not clog the biofilter. If you employ a sponge filter to accomplish both, this could possibly cause a problem. Don't know what your water exchange schedule is, but I would suggest that it be not less than 30% daily.

    I would suggest that you monitor the water parameters (ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate) carefully to assure that your biofilter continues to do it's job. If the Purigen reactor is doing it's job and there is sufficient water circulation, the nitrate level should go to zero.

    Would be very helpful if you could post some pictures of your tank set up with the Magnum 350.

    Paul

  9. #24

    Default Re: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Rea

    Paul,

    Thanks for your reply. I will try to post a few more pictures here.

    I've been pondering my filtration system further. I sterilized my tank after a case of persistent illness, and was running bare bottom, two whisper hob filters that got clean floss a couple of times a week. They also contain bio sponges that get rinsed only occasionally in tank water.

    After sterilizing the tank, I added two large sponge filters to help with bio filtration. Though I vacuumed them daily and squeezed them in tank water a couple of times a week, I was getting a slime build up on the bottom between daily 75% water changes. I decided to add a thin layer of pool filter sand to add some extra bio filtration on the bottom, and to help the tank look better between water changes.

    I've ordered a magnum inline pump to make vacuuming the bottom/removing water quicker and easier (currently, vacuum daily with eheim cordless vac, and change 75% water daily with submersible pump. I also have been considering ordering another magnum 350 (under $100) to fill completely with bio media and serve as a bio canister. My tank is 55g not planted, and the magnum circulates 350 gph. I hope to go a month between servicing the purigen canister. The casing is clear, so I can easily see if the media is clogged or dark. I will have a clean micron filter and four clean pouches of purigen on hand to service the canister, whether it is 2 weeks or 4 weeks. I plan to remove it, bleach the micron filter and purigen, wash the canister and parts in hot water, insert clean micron filter and purigen, and put it back online. I can alter this plan if just the micron filter needs cleaning.

    You said you've used the magnum 350. It has a media container, which holds a small amount of media, but the area around the container would hold a fairly large amount of media. The flow rate of the magnum being what it is, I think it would work for my tank. It would have no floss or cartridges in it. Proponents of the internal bio filters (I forget the name, K1?) say they are self cleaning. The media allows flow to prevent large trapped solids, and the beneficial bacteria consume anything that does remain.

    So, for now, my immediate plan is:
    2 Whisper HOB filters that get clean floss twice per week and bio sponges that won't need cleaning often
    1 Magnum 350 Purigen Canister with a micron filter
    1 Magnum 350 Bio Canister filled with bio media, but no floss or cartridge
    Thin sandbed to house beneficial bacteria
    75% water changes every 2nd or third day (this is the thing that requires the most work, lugging tubs, hoses, towels, cleaning the bathtub- I hope to keep the system clean between bi-weekly water changes.

    Per your comment about the waste dissolving, do you think the floss in 2 hob filters changed 2x weekly, and the micron filter in the canister changed every 2-4 weeks, plus the bb in the sand bed will be enough to keep the water clean between 75-80% bi-weekly water changes? I'm still experimenting. I don't have a fish room and am working in my living room. Just today my wife took a bath after my 75% wc and ran out of hot water.

    Tanks.

  10. #25

    Default Re: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Rea








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  11. #26

    Default Re: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Rea

    Second day running 4 pouches of purigen around the mag 350 micron filter and 1/4 " pool filter sand. 1 Day after 75% wc. Water and glass are crystal clear. Fish look like they are floating on air.

    Removing visible waste with eheim electric vacuum every morning. Water parameters: Ammonia- 0, Nitrite- 0, Nitrate- 0. If I can maintain these conditions between bi-weekly 80% water and filter floss changes and monthly or bi monthly canister maintenance I will be happy. Auto water changes are not an option.

  12. #27

    Default Re: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Rea

    Paul,

    Sorry if I'm posting too much in your thread. You asked for feedback, but this may be more than you wanted. It is kind of a follow up on your project and original post.

  13. #28
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    Default Re: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Rea

    Quote Originally Posted by OC Discus View Post
    Paul,

    Thanks for your reply. I will try to post a few more pictures here.

    I've been pondering my filtration system further. I sterilized my tank after a case of persistent illness, and was running bare bottom, two whisper hob filters that got clean floss a couple of times a week. They also contain bio sponges that get rinsed only occasionally in tank water.

    After sterilizing the tank, I added two large sponge filters to help with bio filtration. Though I vacuumed them daily and squeezed them in tank water a couple of times a week, I was getting a slime build up on the bottom between daily 75% water changes. I decided to add a thin layer of pool filter sand to add some extra bio filtration on the bottom, and to help the tank look better between water changes.

    I've ordered a magnum inline pump to make vacuuming the bottom/removing water quicker and easier (currently, vacuum daily with eheim cordless vac, and change 75% water daily with submersible pump. I also have been considering ordering another magnum 350 (under $100) to fill completely with bio media and serve as a bio canister. My tank is 55g not planted, and the magnum circulates 350 gph. I hope to go a month between servicing the purigen canister. The casing is clear, so I can easily see if the media is clogged or dark. I will have a clean micron filter and four clean pouches of purigen on hand to service the canister, whether it is 2 weeks or 4 weeks. I plan to remove it, bleach the micron filter and purigen, wash the canister and parts in hot water, insert clean micron filter and purigen, and put it back online. I can alter this plan if just the micron filter needs cleaning.

    You said you've used the magnum 350. It has a media container, which holds a small amount of media, but the area around the container would hold a fairly large amount of media. The flow rate of the magnum being what it is, I think it would work for my tank. It would have no floss or cartridges in it. Proponents of the internal bio filters (I forget the name, K1?) say they are self cleaning. The media allows flow to prevent large trapped solids, and the beneficial bacteria consume anything that does remain.

    So, for now, my immediate plan is:
    2 Whisper HOB filters that get clean floss twice per week and bio sponges that won't need cleaning often
    1 Magnum 350 Purigen Canister with a micron filter
    1 Magnum 350 Bio Canister filled with bio media, but no floss or cartridge
    Thin sandbed to house beneficial bacteria
    75% water changes every 2nd or third day (this is the thing that requires the most work, lugging tubs, hoses, towels, cleaning the bathtub- I hope to keep the system clean between bi-weekly water changes.

    Per your comment about the waste dissolving, do you think the floss in 2 hob filters changed 2x weekly, and the micron filter in the canister changed every 2-4 weeks, plus the bb in the sand bed will be enough to keep the water clean between 75-80% bi-weekly water changes? I'm still experimenting. I don't have a fish room and am working in my living room. Just today my wife took a bath after my 75% wc and ran out of hot water.

    Tanks.
    OC Discus,

    I didn't reply to this post yesterday because I needed time to think about what to say. The job of converting your existing tank with fish in it to a system like mine is much more complex than starting form scratch with a new tank and without fish. So what I have decided to so is to give you some general guidelines that I hope will help you. Frankly, I really don't know what the best approach is to convert your tank using the equipment that you now have. Would appreciate it very much if you would keep me posted on your progress. By the way, I was very impressed with your idea of placing bags of Purigen in a Magnum 350 to produce a reactor. I never considered doing it this way. I would suggest placing some mechanical filtration media on the front end in order to keep it running longer before it becomes plugged.

    You will be making changes to your tank while you have fish in it, and this can be risky unless you are very careful and understand what you are doing. One of these risks is that you need to be certain that you maintain an established biofilter. I would start by recording all of the changes in a journal. Then I would recommend that you measure and record water parameters daily: ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate. The ammonia and nitrite will always be maintained at zero if you have a properly established biofilter. Would suggest that you have some Prime on hand in case of emergencies.

    There are three objectives you are trying to accomplish: getting the water clarity crystal clear, reducing algae/slime to near zero, and getting the feces to dissolve/disintegrate. Sounds as if you have satisfied the first objective. Like you, I found this very easy by simply adding a 100ml bag of Purigen in the path of moving water.

    Algae/slime will be eliminated when phosphates and nitrates are reduced to zero. In my system, the phosphates and nitrates in my SOURCE water are already zero, so I don't have any issues to deal with initially. Normally in an aquarium without a Purigen reactor, nitrates are produced by the nitrification of uneaten fish food and feces. (The Purigen absorbs the organic compounds in the uneaten fish food and feces and thus they are not available to the nitrification process and nitrates are greatly reduced). A secondary source of nitrates occur when the digestive process of the fish produces ammonia and then the nitrification process in the biofilter produces nitrates. This second source of nitrates is much less than the first, and they are flushed from the tank with water exchanges.

    You already have a Purigen reactor online, and from the looks of the motion of the Purigen beads in the video, your reactor is working properly. Now what I would suggest is to record the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, and phosphate of your source water and tank water. The other thing that I would suggest is to clean all existing algae and slime from your tank (I'm not certain that your Purigen reactor will remove existing algae/slime. What it will do for certain is to stop the growth of new algae/slime providing that the nitrate and phosphate is near zero). When you have done this, please let me know the measured values, and we can proceed from there.

    The third objective is to get the feces to dissolve/disintegrate. There are three requirements you need to accomplish to get this to happen. The first is to get a functional Purigen reactor. (Looks to me you have already accomplished this). The second is to get a very large amount of circulation thru your filtration system (I have a 100g tank and the filter pump rate is 1000g/hr thus the water "turns over" 10 times an hour). Your system may work with less, but I don't have enough experience to say for certain or how much. The third thing is to get a large bottom to top circulation going in the tank. This happens in my tank with six bubble lift tubes. I know for certain that the bubble lift tubes are necessary to get the feces to dissolve/disintegrate properly. When you have enough circulation you should be able to see the fresh feces move slightly in the water current (fresh feces in this area should disappear in about an hour). In some areas of the tank that get less current, the feces will take longer to disappear (4 hours or more). I would estimate that more than 99% of the feces material disappears. As Purigen darkens, the feces will require longer for this to occur. I would suggest that you remove the sand until you get the system working properly, and then add it back later to see if there is a change. The removal of sand may allow better water motion at the tank bottom where the feces is.

    Getting back to the risk of making changes in an existing tank with fish, one of the risks involves what happens to the feces after it breaks up. The feces is made up of organic compounds, dissolved solids (TDS), and suspended solids. The organic compounds will be absorbed by the Purigen and do not pose any risk. The dissolved solids can be measured with a TDS meter. I would suggest getting one and measuring the TDS of your source water, then compare it with the tank water TDS to get an idea of how much TDS is added to the tank water by the feces. Then regulate the water exchange to obtain what you think is a reasonable level. My exchange schedule (30% daily) results in a tank water TDS of 82ppm. My source water has a TDS of 77ppm. Now getting to the suspended solids. I suspect that the suspended solids could potentially create a risk in your system (I don't know this to be a fact, I'm only guessing.) What I do know for certain is that there's a large amount of suspended solids, because I noticed there was a huge increase in my pleated filter when I first put my Purigen reactor online. I have two pleated filters (30 microns) with a total of 60 square feet of pleated filter (this is allot of area). I know for certain that my pleated filter will eventually get clogged with the suspended solids. This is indicated by the pressure gauge on the canister filter. What I'm trying to say is, provide allot of mechanical filtration for the water before it enters your biofilter and assure that it does not become blocked. A tank without an aquate biofilter will cause big problems. I would also carefully monitor the ammonia and nitrite.

    When you get this system operating properly, you will be amazed at how clean your tank will stay, and how little work it takes to keep it that way. I guarantee it. Also, you will be able to add all sorts of decorative items (if you choose) and have them stay clean for several months.

    Paul

  14. #29
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    Default Re: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Rea

    Quote Originally Posted by OC Discus View Post
    Second day running 4 pouches of purigen around the mag 350 micron filter and 1/4 " pool filter sand. 1 Day after 75% wc. Water and glass are crystal clear. Fish look like they are floating on air.

    Removing visible waste with eheim electric vacuum every morning. Water parameters: Ammonia- 0, Nitrite- 0, Nitrate- 0. If I can maintain these conditions between bi-weekly 80% water and filter floss changes and monthly or bi monthly canister maintenance I will be happy. Auto water changes are not an option.
    OC Discus,

    I did't see your post before making mine today. GREAT, you're making progress. Question: what test kit did you use to measure nitrate? Can you "guess" how close to zero you think it is?

    The only real advantage that my automated exchange system provides to tank conditions is surface cleaning. Other than that manual exchanges work fine.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Rea

    Quote Originally Posted by OC Discus View Post
    Paul,

    Sorry if I'm posting too much in your thread. You asked for feedback, but this may be more than you wanted. It is kind of a follow up on your project and original post.
    OC Discus,

    No apology necessary. In fact I welcome your feedback. Frankly, I'm looking for someone to validate my results. Hoping that you will stick with it and that you will be successful in getting the same results as mine.

    I know for a fact that this is a REALLY REALLY good system and that it will do exactly as I have previously stated. I'm going to feel somewhat vindicated when someone else accomplishes this. Most people are polite, but there has been a couple that I know don't believe what I claim are actually my results, and have let me know so. So PLEASE stick with it.

    Paul

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