Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Reactor

[BobB]

The purigen reactors are they anything like phosphate reactors used in reef tanks.

[afriend]

The purigen reactors are they anything like phosphate reactors used in reef tanks.

BobB,

First of all, I don't know of any reactor that is commercially available that is made to work with Purigen. This is due to the unique properties of Purigen. I would suggest reading part 4 of my presentation about the design, build and servicing of my Purigen reactor.

Paul

[afriend]

Paul,

Pool filter sand is heavy enough that it is not shifted around, but fine enough that it forms a solid bed that keeps large pieces of waste from getting trapped. I think it also provides extra bio filtration- as the bb colonizes the surface of the sand and helps consume the fine waste/helps break down the large waste. My only question at this point is the long term build up of fine particulate matter. But as you suggested with your system, what is left behind probably does not contain much organic matter and a good vacuuming, either weekly or monthly, should remove much of what is there. I think in combination with the other elements of your system, it would not be an issue and may even enhance the filtration system. I'm no expert and welcome correction on this matter. I have just ordered an artificial stump as a centerpiece decoration. The pointed ends are all facing down, creating hiding places for the fish and eliminating potentially dangerous contact.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...m?pcatid=19344

I'm starting to enjoy the hobby again now that I've gotten past issues of disease and water quality. I'm willing to service my micron filter and purigen every couple of weeks if that's what it takes to keep pristine water between water changes. The combination of the micron filter, the purigen reactor, and the sandbed for bio filtration have made my water and tank more attractive than its ever been. The water at the surface, under the LED lights is like clean glass.

I think I will monitor my system before adding any new elements. I like the idea of having dedicated canisters: 1) Pleated Micron Filter, 2) Purigen Reactor, 3) Bio Canister- sand or media. Looks like those moving sand bed filters would be a cost effective way to create the bio filter and the purigen reactor. My mag 350 already has a micron filter.

O C Discus,

Got a good laugh at myself. When I read your statement "I have just ordered an artificial stump" I thought it read "I have just ordered an artificial SUMP" So I'm thinking, what the heck is an artificial sump and why would anyone use it as decoration? Then I clicked on the link and discovered my mistake when I saw the picture.

I agree with your assessment about using sand and vacuuming it up once a month. I'm going to try this as I have always wanted some type of substrate. Where do you get your sand from?

Would like to make a suggestion about how to use and regenerate your bags of Purigen. Set it up so that your four bags of Purigen have staggered use: one new bag, one bag regenerated once, one bag regenerated twice, and one bag regenerated three times. Or something similar to that.

SeaChem claims that Purigen looses 10% of its effectiveness each time that it is regenerated. I suspect that its more like 20% each time. Each bag contains 100ml of Purigen. A bag that has been regenerated once then has 80ml of effective Purigen, and a bag that has been regenerated twice has 60ml of effective Purigen, and so forth. Thus the four bags of staggered use has 280ml. of effective Purigen. This is far more than you need for 6 fish for 1/2 month.

My tank runs with 250ml of new Purigen and goes for 1 month with 10 adult discus (this is a very conservative estimate). Thus one can run on 25ml of effective Purigen per fish per month. Since you have 6 fish and run only 1/2 month, you can do the math.

Thanks for your help. By the recent response, it looks like we have stirred up some interest in this.

Paul

[OC Discus]

That's funny about the sump. I'm not sure how the sand will affect circulation with the large decoration in the tank, but I think it would be minimal.

I researched sand awhile back, and sd members almost unanimously recommended pool filter sand. It is a little courser and heavier than play sand so it doesn't get sucked up in the filters. I also remember being advised to go to an upscale pool store and get "non-silica" sand, since silicate is a food source for diatom. I was not able to get the "non silica" sand, and went to Home Depot to the pool section and got a bag of Quickcrete brand for about $10. I only put enough in the tank to cover the bottom- maybe 1/4 ". It is shallow enough so anaerobic bacteria cannot colonize in it. Before setting up the purigen reactor I was using the sand and after several months I started having a diatom problem. I don't think you will have that problem with your system, but it is something to consider. Silicate may be a substance that purigen can filter out, but I'm not sure of its impact on the purigen (shortened lifespan).

Thank you for the suggestion on staggering the service of the purigen pouches. I had not considered that their lifespan would be so diminished by each recharge. I'm not sure how long they will go before they need recharging. I would really like to get as much life out of them as possible. If recharging diminishes the lifespan, I should probably run them until their usefulness is almost gone before recharging. That is a new question for me to consider. I just received the 4 new pouches from Kensfish today. I was using 1/2 month as a minimum goal, but if I can use them more like 2-3 months (1/2 the recommended time) before recharging, they will last longer. I'm still in an experimental phase, so I'm not sure if I can get 2 weeks or 2 months before recharging. I'm also using 400 ml with 6 fish, so maybe I can get 2 months instead of one. Its also possible that the one nearest the water intake will need replacing before the others, which may be what you were thinking. I could rotate them with the newest one going furthest from the inlet and moving the others one step closer to the inlet each month- changing out one pouch per month.

I also got my replacement micron filter in today. Like the purigen, it can be cleaned, bleached, rinsed and re-used. While I originally planned to service the canister once or twice per month, putting in clean purigen and micron filter, I think I will wait until the purigen visibly needs changing to extend its lifespan. The good thing about the magnum 350 is you can see the media without opening the canister. I will probably put in a clean micron filter ever 2-4 weeks, as needed, and check the purigen each time, replacing only the bags that require cleaning. I think rinsing the purigen pouches in tank water every couple of weeks could also extend their life span.

I do think we've stirred up some interest. I have found most of the long term members of sd to be very passionate about fish health and water quality. Any shortcuts that would diminish water quality would be criticized. But anything that improves water quality and fish health will likely be embraced.

Your system, with automatic water changes, would be excellent for professional installations like Dr. Offices, Dentist Offices, Malls and Public places where one can't be doing daily water changes. It would also be great for large 200-300 gallon display tanks. I don't think I'll be able to set up the automatic water changes where I live, but with the right pumps and hoses it can be done much faster and easier. I bought a 320 gph fountain pump that can drain my tank in about 4 minutes. The only problem is I cant use it to vacuum the bottom. So I just received today a magnum 350 gph inline pump. I plan to put it in the bathtub or outside, depending on the weather, to vacuum and drain the tank. I can then use the fountain pump, or the magnum, to refill.

Anyway, I'm droning on. Thanks again for your help. I will give thought to your suggestion about staggering the purigen changes, especially the pouch nearest the inlet. I'll let you know how it goes.

[afriend]

O C Discus,

Thank you for the reply.

I researched sand awhile back, and sd members almost unanimously recommended pool filter sand. It is a little courser and heavier than play sand so it doesn't get sucked up in the filters. I also remember being advised to go to an upscale pool store and get "non-silica" sand, since silicate is a food source for diatom. I was not able to get the "non silica" sand, and went to Home Depot to the pool section and got a bag of Quickcrete brand for about $10. I only put enough in the tank to cover the bottom- maybe 1/4 ". It is shallow enough so anaerobic bacteria cannot colonize in it. Before setting up the purigen reactor I was using the sand and after several months I started having a diatom problem. I don't think you will have that problem with your system, but it is something to consider. Silicate may be a substance that purigen can filter out, but I'm not sure of its impact on the purigen (shortened lifespan).

Good information. Can you elaborate on what you mean by "Silicate may be a substance that purigen can filter out"? My understanding is that Purigen only absorbs organic compounds. Is there something here that I don't understand?

Interesting that you mention that it took several months before you had a diatom problem. I had a similar experience with black beard algae. I have always had some black beard algae in my aquariums over the years, but it was never a problem until a few months after I put the Purigen reactor online. I really don't know how or why this happened or if it occurred as a result of the Purigen. Anyhow, after some research, I found that there are two products that will control black beard algae (BBA): SeaChem Excel, and API CO2 Booster. These two products are normally used to increase CO2 levels for planted aquariums and are not sold for the purpose of controlling BBA. I tried the API product and it worked extremely well, but did not entirely remove all of the BBA, but the results are acceptable to me. I'm telling you this incase you have a similar problem. If you do, let me know and I'll tell you how I now control BBA with an automated system.

Thank you for the suggestion on staggering the service of the purigen pouches. I had not considered that their lifespan would be so diminished by each recharge. I'm not sure how long they will go before they need recharging.

Purigen does not suddenly stop working. Rather the effectiveness slowly diminishes as it used. The way to tell when it needs to be recharged is to watch how long it takes new feces to dissolve.

A couple of other things about Purigen. Don't let it dry out between uses as the Purigen beads will crack. Also, here's a way you might consider to reduce the cost of Purigen: You can purchase loose Purigen in the 2L size for about $80 (thats enough to make 20 100ml bags), and material to make your own bags is available at considerable savings. Let me know if you are interested and I can provide the links as to where to purchase.

Its also possible that the one nearest the water intake will need replacing before the others, which may be what you were thinking. I could rotate them with the newest one going furthest from the inlet and moving the others one step closer to the inlet each month- changing out one pouch per month.

Purigen only requires a very small amount of water flow to do its job, the flow can be so slow that there is no apparent motion. The best way to determine if it doing its job is to watch for the color change (some beads will be light and some dark). In the video you posted, one cannot tell the color of the beads. Perhaps the use of a flashlight will assist here.

Thanks again. You have no idea how much you have helped me. You are the first one to validate the results that I have achieved, and your exchange of ideas have helped me immensely.

Paul

[OC Discus]

Paul,

I'm not an expert on chemicals, but when I was keeping a reef tank I became familiar with silicates- an organic compound that feeds diatom. I will post a few links here that explain more than I can, and possibly some preventive measures.

Here is a long thread discussing the problem

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums...es-125149.html

Here is a link to a silicate remover

http://www.petmountain.com/product/a...FZLm7AodlkUAvg

Just something to go on. Google will help research further.

Those with bare bottom and daily water changes never have a silicate build up. But those with substrate who do less frequent water changes often do. I've had one member tell me he gets diatom in a bare bottom tank because the glass itself is made of silica. I'm curious to know if silicate and phosphate are removed by purigen.

Thanks for the tips about not letting the purigen dry out and about using the loose form. If my method does not last six months or longer with what I have, I will be looking to change it.

[OC Discus]

Below is a quote from a Seachem Representative on another forum.

Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Madison, GA
Posts: 1,359

iTrader Ratings: 0
Seachem is a regular member

: Default Re: Purigen And Silicates

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Purigen removes nitrogenous waste. If you are looking for silicate and/or phosphate removal PhosGuard is what you will need to use. But, I suggest that you get a test kit to check your levels of silicate and phosphate.
Seachem is offline

[OC Discus]

Below is a link to a silicate test kit commonly used by reef keepers. I haven't tested for silicate and phosphate in my freshwater tank, but I suspect they are part of diatom and algae problems.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sili...58199839675877

[afriend]

I also remember being advised to go to an upscale pool store and get "non-silica" sand, since silicate is a food source for diatom

O C Discus,

So what's the deal with non-silica sand, do you think it is no longer available. If I can get it, would it then remove the possibility of diatoms?

Thanks,

Paul

[OC Discus]

Hey Paul. I posted a couple of links in another thread about silicates, phosphates, and a product to remove them. If I start getting diatom again I might find the non silica sand and change out. Or find a way to add sea chem phosguard to the filter system. It would be worth researching before doing something that affects your system.

My tank was just sterilized not long before adding the reactor. Time will tell.


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[afriend]

Hey Paul. I posted a couple of links in another thread about silicates, phosphates, and a product to remove them. If I start getting diatom again I might find the non silica sand and change out. Or find a way to add sea chem phosguard to the filter system. It would be worth researching before doing something that affects your system.

O C Discus,

Thanks for the heads up. I'm going to be real careful before adding something that could potentially end up as a disaster.

Did you sterilize the tank to get rid of the diatome?

BTW, if you could determine the TDS of your tank water, I would sure like to know what it is. If you don't have a TDS meter, perhaps a LFS could help you out if you brought them a sample.

Paul

[OC Discus]

Paul,

I sterilized the tank because of a stubborn, reoccurring case of ick and possibly other parasites. It was a community tank with gravel before adding the discus. Later the gravel was removed and sand was added. In this process of converting from a community tank to a discus tank one of my fish developed parasites that kept coming back after treatment. After the third treatment the parasites were not responding to treatment. Al advised me to sterilize my quarantine tank with bleach, do salt dips on all the discus and move them to the quarantine tank, remove all the non discus and sand from the main tank and sterilize it with bleach. Then repeat daily salt dips, moving the fish to a sterilized tank after each dip. After 4 days, the fish were clear of all visible white spots. They were dipped one last time and put back into the main tank which was now bare bottom and sterilized twice. It worked like a charm to heal the fish. No losses (except the non discus which were discarded).

BTW, I serviced my Mag 350 canister today with an 80% water change. The water was still crystal clear before the wc, but I wanted to clean the micron filter. You asked for an update when I serviced the canister. I took everything out, rinsed the canister, parts, and purigen in hot water. Installed a new micron filter, and put the purigen pouches back in without recharging. They have darkened to a toffee color but not dark brown or black. I ll post a couple of pics below.

Keeping crystal clear water is costly- either changing most of it every day, or in high priced micron filters. I love the way the tank looks using the micron filter and purigen permenantly. I also like that the filters and purigen can be recharged. I m just not sure how long the magnum micron filters will last being bleached every 7-10 days. I'm also not sure how much mileage I'll get from the purigen in my setup. I will try to run the purigen for a month before recharging. We ll see. My large stump came in today. The fish like it already.

As for the sand, most sd members who use sand use pool filter sand. With daily water changes some don't have issues. If waste is allowed to accumulate in the sand it will develop brown algae, sand algae, or diatom. With your system and the 30% daily wc I'm not sure if enough sediment would accumulate between vacuuming for the algae to get established. Good luck.


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[OC Discus]

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[OC Discus]

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[OC Discus]

O C Discus,

BTW, if you could determine the TDS of your tank water, I would sure like to know what it is. If you don't have a TDS meter, perhaps a LFS could help you out if you brought them a sample.

Paul

Forgot about your TDS question. I don't have a meter, but can try to get it tested. This was probably an issue in past cases of diatom outbreak. What I can test I'll list here:

Ph- 7.2
Kh- 120-180
Gh- 150
Nitrite- 0
Nitrate- Not checked today. 0 last time checked.