Getting the WOW Affect with Allot Less Work- Design and Servicing the Purigen Reactor

[afriend]

BTW, I serviced my Mag 350 canister today with an 80% water change. The water was still crystal clear before the wc, but I wanted to clean the micron filter. You asked for an update when I serviced the canister. I took everything out, rinsed the canister, parts, and purigen in hot water. Installed a new micron filter, and put the purigen pouches back in without recharging. They have darkened to a toffee color but not dark brown or black. I ll post a couple of pics below.

O C Discus,

The crystal clear water is most likely due to the Purigen and not the micron filter or water changes (the water changes are necessary for other reasons). The length of time before the Purigen reactor needs servicing depends on two factors: the micron filter becomes plugged, or the Purigen is unable to process the organic compounds, what ever occurs first. Its easy to determine when the micron filter becomes plugged by checking the flow rate thru the canister filter. In your setup the Purigen will be unable to process the organic compounds when either of two events occur: the Purigen beads are no longer fluidized (watch the motion of the beads), or the Purigen needs to be recharged (watch how fast new feces dissolves). You have a very large amount of Purigen (400ml) and a fairly small organic load (6 fish). So I would estimate that you have sufficient Purigen to run for about 3 months before it needs recharging. Thus the limitation on time between servicing will probably be determined by the micron filter or debris blocking the Purigen bags.

Keeping crystal clear water is costly- either changing most of it every day, or in high priced micron filters. I love the way the tank looks using the micron filter and purigen permenantly. I also like that the filters and purigen can be recharged. I m just not sure how long the magnum micron filters will last being bleached every 7-10 days. I'm also not sure how much mileage I'll get from the purigen in my setup. I will try to run the purigen for a month before recharging. We ll see. My large stump came in today. The fish like it already.

You can reduce your costs by letting the Purigen reactor go longer before it is serviced. I really don't think that there is anything to be gained by doing it more often than necessary. The addition of Purigen in your system will reduce the organic compounds in the tank to near zero. Thus the conditions in the tank will remain in pristine condition (pristine here refers to healthy conditions, not water clarity) as long as the Purigen is doing its job and you keep up the water changes. The magnum micron filter can be cleaned many times (at least 25 times).

As for the sand, most sd members who use sand use pool filter sand. With daily water changes some don't have issues. If waste is allowed to accumulate in the sand it will develop brown algae, sand algae, or diatom. With your system and the 30% daily wc I'm not sure if enough sediment would accumulate between vacuuming for the algae to get established

I really don't expect algae will form on the sand because the nitrates are zero, and I don't have any phosphates. It will probably accumulate a very small amount of heavy solids, because thats what happens to my BB tank now.

After your stump has been in your tank for a month or more, take it out and give it the "sniff" test. If it smells fresh and not foul, that's a real good test indicating healthy tank conditions.

Your tank looks really clean.

Paul

[afriend]

Below is a link to a silicate test kit commonly used by reef keepers. I haven't tested for silicate and phosphate in my freshwater tank, but I suspect they are part of diatom and algae problems

.

O C Discus,

Thanks for the link to a silicate test kit. I already have a phosphate kit and have determined that my tank has 0 phosphates.

Paul

[jalmince]

Hi !
I have read your 4 posts with a lot of interest, being currently looking for a way to reduce ( or eliminate..) algae in my discus tank.
I would love to build a reactor according to your design, but I do not have much time, and the refs in your part list won't be of much help here in Switzerland.
My question is the following: would it make sense to use a bag of Purigen inside a canister filter, may be at the expense of less efficiency ?
kind regards,
JeanPaul

[afriend]

Hi !
I have read your 4 posts with a lot of interest, being currently looking for a way to reduce ( or eliminate..) algae in my discus tank.
I would love to build a reactor according to your design, but I do not have much time, and the refs in your part list won't be of much help here in Switzerland.
My question is the following: would it make sense to use a bag of Purigen inside a canister filter, may be at the expense of less efficiency ?
kind regards,
JeanPaul

JeanPaul,

You can try it and see if it works for you. OCDiscus on this forum has had success this way and you might want to contact him for advice.

Here's a link to a reactor that I had success with for a QT tank I set up a couple of months ago:

http://pet-supplies.drsfostersmith.c...=0&isort=score

I was able to keep the Purigen beads out of the QT tank by placing a piece of 180 micron mesh between two sponges placed in the top of the reactor vessel. It worked for awhile without getting plugged up.

I would like to emphasize that just placing a Purigen reactor in the system will not reduce the algae and slime. In order to be successful at getting rid of algae and slime, you must reduce the nitrate level in your tank to zero. The Purigen reactor will greatly reduce the production of new nitrates, and sufficient water exchanges must be made to reduce these new nitrates to zero. All of this is dependant on the phosphates and nitrates in the source water to be zero. I suggest that you get API test kits for phosphates and nitrates.

I can assure you that this method works exceptionally well when properly implemented. If you also want to eliminate the need to siphon feces, the other parts of the "total filtration system" will need to be implemented *** well.

Hope this helps. Feel free to ask additional questions.

Paul

[OC Discus]

JeanPaul

Just to follow up on Paul's response, I've had great results from putting 4 100 ml pouches of Purigen around the micron filter in my canister. They fit loosely enough that the Purigen becomes fluidized- water circulates through it. I also have two other filters for mechanical and biological filtration.

While my system is not automated like Paul's, I do large 80% water changes weekly after removing the artificial stumps, rinsing them in hot running water, and wiping down all surfaces of the tank. It is bare bottom, so no surface is uncleaned except inside the filters.

For the past six months I have put clean floss in the 2 hang on filters weekly, put clean micron in the canister bi-weekly flushing all parts with hot running water each time. Once per month I put fresh Purigen in the canister and recharge the old. The good thing is all of my media can be re-charged/ cleaned by rinsing with hot water, soaking 24 hours in bleach, rinsing again, then soaking in clean water/prime til ready to use again.

I haven't noticed any decline in the purigens effectiveness since starting this system. The two sets of Purigen and micron filters will probably last at least a year being rotated like this.

Example of effectiveness: I was recently unable to do a water change for two weeks. I had to add a gallon or two of water about twice a week. Before the water change I tested the water. Ammonia and nitrite were 0 and nitrate was below ten. The water was still crystal clear.

The black coating that I used to get on the substrate that I thought was algae is non existent with weekly maintenance and just beginning at two weeks. I don't think it is algae, but protein much like is removed from reef tanks with a protein skimmer.

I know this approach is unorthodox on sd, but I'm not growing out fry. I understand the stendeker web site indicates adult discus can do fine in even higher nitrate.

Another caveate. I started this system after sterilizing my tanks 2-3 times and salt dipping my fish 4 days to remove parasites. The tank was sterile when I started.

Best regards.




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[Mu1198]

I have read carefully through this post and am in the process of applying this idea to my 500 gallon plywood tank. I have scaled up the reactor concept by using a nu-clear 506 and 1506 housing with similar assembly at the top to attach a pleated filter the same way you show in a whole house filter. I will have the water enter the canister at the bottom or reverse of normal flow and employ the included media tray as flow disbursement. I am still working on that polyester mesh as that company you mentioned for a supplier told me they will not sell to individuals. (I am currently attempting to procure the mesh through the local fish store through the same company) I will be using 1500ml of purigen in the beginning and keep a record to see if a proportionate application of the media will work. I already have a successful bio filter with fluidized K1. I use 100 micron socks first before using the same 25 micron pleated canister that you use. I water change to keep the nitrates low so I am hoping this will bridge that gap to 0 ppm or as near as possible!

Thank you for all this great information and I welcome any comments,

Matt

[afriend]

I have read carefully through this post and am in the process of applying this idea to my 500 gallon plywood tank. I have scaled up the reactor concept by using a nu-clear 506 and 1506 housing with similar assembly at the top to attach a pleated filter the same way you show in a whole house filter. I will have the water enter the canister at the bottom or reverse of normal flow and employ the included media tray as flow disbursement. I am still working on that polyester mesh as that company you mentioned for a supplier told me they will not sell to individuals. (I am currently attempting to procure the mesh through the local fish store through the same company) I will be using 1500ml of purigen in the beginning and keep a record to see if a proportionate application of the media will work. I already have a successful bio filter with fluidized K1. I use 100 micron socks first before using the same 25 micron pleated canister that you use. I water change to keep the nitrates low so I am hoping this will bridge that gap to 0 ppm or as near as possible!

Thank you for all this great information and I welcome any comments,

Matt

Matt,

Wish you all the very best of luck on your 500g plywood tank build project. I'm wondering if you also noticed the three stickies describing the other elements of the filtration system. Are you just implementing a purigen reactor, or do you intend to build a system like mine? Your approach on the purigen reactor sounds reasonable.

By the way, I ordered my screen material from the website listed in the parts list. Since the order form required the name of my company, I sold some discus awhile back, and decided right then that Ozark Discus was a good name for my business.

I assume that your reason for wanting the nitrates low is to eliminate algae. Don't forget to check your SOURCE water to verify that you have zero phosphate and zero nitrate, otherwise you will need to treat these before using the source.

The best of luck to you. If I can be of assistance, feel free to ask.

Paul

[Mu1198]

Paul,

I had read all of these great posts and I believe the other elements are covered. Bio load is way over built with K1 and it is seperate from the purigen but after the mechanical. Circulation is great to keep things moving and I stock with some corys and Geophagus as well. I am using sand as a substrate but minimal coverage so the fish do a great job of turning the sand for me. Occasionally I will get a little sand dune built up as I might bump a sump return nozzle and the flow starts to directly effect the sand. In those cases the fish don't sift deep enough to get to the bottom so I adjust and redistribute the sand. I definately keep up with water changes and still intend to keep the same schedule even after the the reactor is online.

I would say providing the best quality water for the fish is tops on the agenda. I read the part about zero phosphates, I am certain that I am in the clear with my water source but I will test it again.

With the mesh, I wondered if I had just made up a business then they might have shipped. My LFS owner is a great guy and is willing to order it for me. He is very interested in my results.

I will post again when the mesh comes in and the reactor is online. Will also get some pics in case someone wants to duplicate.

Matt

[afriend]

Matt,

Sounds great. Looking forward to some pictures.

I would say providing the best quality water for the fish is tops on the agenda. I read the part about zero phosphates, I am certain that I am in the clear with my water source but I will test it again.

Purigen will definitely improve water quality as it will remove organic compounds, the number one issue after ammonia and nitrite is taken care of by the biofilter. As far as nitrate is concerned, purigen greatly reduces the production of new nitrate, thus moderate water changes will then reduce it even more. Judging by the size of the reactor and the amount of purigen in it, you should have no problem in eliminating algae, the number one problem in keeping the tank nice and clean looking.

I believe that water changes are just as necessary after the purigen reactor is placed on line. Thats because their are other compound in the water column that can cause problems.

Of course the next issue is the automatic removal of feces. Is it your objective to obtain this result as well?

I am greatly interested in following your progress in this project, and hope you will let me know how it turns out.

Paul

[anti]

have you ever considered using npx bio plastics for nitrate control in your reactor? i have been reading a lot about it lately. supposedly it works on freshwater too

[afriend]

have you ever considered using npx bio plastics for nitrate control in your reactor? i have been reading a lot about it lately. supposedly it works on freshwater too

anti,

Never tried npx bio plastics. Actually the Purigen does such a good job at controlling nitrate AND also removes all dissolved organic compounds (DOCs). Perhaps it could be used to remove nitrates existing in the source water, but my well water contains zero nitrate.

Perhaps you already know this, but Purigen does not absorb nitrate, it just greatly reduces the production of new nitrates.

Thanks for your response.

Paul

[gordo33]

Thanks for putting together the series for your filtration system. Your system is amazing! I would like to expand my basic system to improve the water quality in my 75 gal planted tank with gravel substrate. Currently I have a Rena xp3 canister filter. This is rectangular with 3 baskets to hold sponges and filter media.

I would like to attempt your DIY purigen filter. The build instructions are clear but I have a question regarding the center PVC tube for the upper assembly. The section with the drilled holes fits into a tee that you describe being plugged at the top section of the tee. How is this plugged? Is the plugs purpose to prevent water that is exiting the filter from flowing back down the tube where the incoming water is entering the tee?

I have a second xp3 filter that I would like to add to my tanks filtration dedicate this to biological filtration and wonder if I can connect the Purigen filter by teeing the xp3 intake. One concern I have would there be enough pressure to send the water back up too my tank. Do you think this would be effective?

A third but significantly more complex set up would be to try to simulate your plumbing and use an external pump to drive the two Rena filters and the Purigen filter. Or maybe just run it independently with its own pump???

Your input would be greatly appreciated!!

Glenn

[afriend]

Glenn,

Glad to hear from you and I'll try to answer you as best as I can.

I would like to expand my basic system to improve the water quality in my 75 gal planted tank with gravel substrate.

I would not use gravel substrate. Far too much chance for feces and uneaten food to become trapped. Sand is a better substrate because it tends to keep the feces and uneaten food from becoming trapped. I use a BB tank. Also, my filtration system produces very near zero nitrates. I have not tried to use it with a planted tank, so please be advised.

The build instructions are clear but I have a question regarding the center PVC tube for the upper assembly. The section with the drilled holes fits into a tee that you describe being plugged at the top section of the tee. How is this plugged? Is the plugs purpose to prevent water that is exiting the filter from flowing back down the tube where the incoming water is entering the tee?

The purpose of the T is to direct the water coming in from the center of the T downward to the bottom where it enters the chamber. The water then flows upward thru the purigen and then thru the pleated filter and then thru the holes drilled into the PVC pipe. This water then flows upward thru the pipe and out the vessel. The plug keeps the water separated in the T. The plug is fabricated from a piece of 1/16 thick acrylic sheet available from Home Depot. I fits snugly inside the T and is glued with PVC cement.

I have a second xp3 filter that I would like to add to my tanks filtration dedicate this to biological filtration and wonder if I can connect the Purigen filter by teeing the xp3 intake. One concern I have would there be enough pressure to send the water back up too my tank. Do you think this would be effective?

Be sure that the water flows thru a mechanical filter first. You want to keep all of the crap out of the biological filter and the purigen reactor. The volume of water thru the purigen reactor is very small (about 1 g/m is enough, larger amounts only tend to plug up the reactor sooner). Use valves to direct the proper volume of water flow. By partially blocking water flow you can create enough back pressure to get the right flow thru the reactor.

A third but significantly more complex set up would be to try to simulate your plumbing and use an external pump to drive the two Rena filters and the Purigen filter. Or maybe just run it independently with its own pump???

I don't know the flow rate generated by the Rena filter. My external pump produces 1000 g/h . Since the tank is 100 g, it circulates thru the pump 10 times each hour. This amount of circulation is important to achieve the results that I have obtained.

[gordo33]

Thanks for the detailed explanations to my questions. I have some follow up questions/comments

Glenn,

Glad to hear from you and I'll try to answer you as best as I can.



I would not use gravel substrate. Far too much chance for feces and uneaten food to become trapped. Sand is a better substrate because it tends to keep the feces and uneaten food from becoming trapped. I use a BB tank. Also, my filtration system produces very near zero nitrates. I have not tried to use it with a planted tank, so please be advised..

My tank is already set up and running with gravel. I think I have read somewhere on this forum removing gravel with fish still in the tank is not safe for fish secondary to stirring up trapped substances (pathogens ,parasites, etc.).
My tap water has a low level nitrates so they will always be introduced with wc. I like how planted tank looks and would be willing to convert to sand but have no where to store my fish.

Be sure that the water flows thru a mechanical filter first. You want to keep all of the crap out of the biological filter and the purigen reactor

I was hoping the first canister filter would catch most of the crap while the second one would have "cleaner" water flowing through it. I would use a sponge on the intake as a pre-filter. I can add mechanical filtration to the upper basket.

Use valves to direct the proper volume of water flow. By partially blocking water flow you can create enough back pressure to get the right flow thru the reactor.

Can you explain or direct me to resources that explains how this works. My knowledge here is minimal and I like to understand how things work

I don't know the flow rate generated by the Rena filter. My external pump produces 1000 g/h . Since the tank is 100 g, it circulates thru the pump 10 times each hour. This amount of circulation is important to achieve the results that I have obtained

The flow rate with all media is 187 g/hr(without media 350 g/hr but I guess this number is meaningless) With 2 filters running that gives me approx. 375 gal/hr. That gives me 5x per hour. Does the 10x flow rate for your system include the resistance through the filters and pipes. It looks like your plumbing has many bends and some 90* elbows. How far does your plumbing go to reach your display tank?

Thanks again for your assistance. I want to do this right for the health of my fish and the tanks appearance. I forgot to mention in my first post your display tank looks amazing

Glenn

[sayid]

hi Poul ;
thanks very much for putting such an interesting series of articles based on your experimentation with your set up .i have just discovered SD and therefore your thread .like yourself i have devoted my time to provide the best environment for my discus .i am relatively new to discus (about 4 years ) i have a 500 liter tank ( 133 gallon ) lightly planted i.e 7 plant pot and lightly covered with play sand ( river sand ) .
i am lucky that i live in Melbourne Australia and my tape water comes with ph 6.8 kh 0 gh 2 amm 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 0 phosphate 0 .

i have 8 adult discus ,8 coris , 2 b/n cat fish ,4 ruminose and 4 harlequin tetra and feed them tetra bits ,b/heart,hikari bio gold etc twice a day. i have a24 watt UV sterilizer ,two canister filter each has 582 gph flow plus an internal filter 211 gph so my total turnover is a bit more than 10 times of the tank but in real world with matrix and sponge in both canister the turnover is about 5 times the tank volume .

my nitrate use to be 20 ppm and about 6 months ago i put a sun sun vessel filled with 1.5 liter of seachem denitrate ,the flow is by one of the canister filter and it is adjustable b y means of a valve and after a lot of trials i found the best flow to give me the lowest nitrate level is about 4 gph and my nitrate level is about 1 ppm using API test kit. after reading your 4 parts total filtration system 3 times i have decided to introduce a puregin reactor but before we get into that i have to tell you that my fish are very happy ,their color are good ,i have no problem with algae ,the glass get cleaned once a fortnight if that ,i still have to vacuum the poop every morning and my plants are not growing as much as before but are healthy .

i tried to get a MRI reactor but found that the manufacturer has gone out of business ,i have never used a reactor or puregin before so what reactor would you recommend since i am not as handy as you and i rather buy something off the shelf . BTW i have prefilter sponge on both canisters and they get cleaned together with the sponge of the internal filter twice a week ,also 50 % water change per week,but my canisters filter get cleaned once a year ,they just don't get dirty and my flow is good all the time.thanks for reading this any comment or criticism would be appreciated.
regards
sayid