Please help - remineralizing RO water

[-gb-]

I am using 100% RO water and my fish are suffering. Here is what I am doing. Please help as I know I'm screwing this up.

RO water is being remineralized using: Seachem Alkaline and Acid buffer along with Seachem Equilibrium. I also add Discus trace. Using all of this as proscribed in the bottles. Chemicals are being added directly to the tank.

I have a 65 gallon drum where I heat the water to 30 degrees celsius. I let it sit for 24 hours on average with a bubbler.

The turnover in my 65 gallon tank is about 2.5X an hour or 165 gph.

I am using a canaster filter with BioStars and Seachem's Purigen as well as an in-tank K1 moving bio bed bottle. (Josie's DIY K1 setup)

I've been told in a PM that I the acid is too strong in my tank (due to the chemicals I'm using) and may be burning their skin.

I had originally posted a thread in the Disease section but it has been recommended that I have a water issue not a disease issue... so I'm posting here. For continuity here is the link to the disease thread with pics of my fish: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...t=#post1042403

Please advise on a better way to remineralize my water. Thanks!

[DiscusLoverJeff]

GB,

If you are trying to have balance in your RO water, just make your own remineralizing mix, or just buy RO Right.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...ter&highlight=

What exactly are you try to get from your water? You should be storing your water in a holding barrel. Then get your desired TDS (PH won't matter since your RO water PH is usually stable at 6.6 (+ or -). Once you add the mix I am suggesting, your RO PH should not change and now you will have stability.

Let me know if you have any other concerns.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks Jeff for stepping in. I was going to ask for your help

[John_Nicholson]

There may be a reason but why are you noe just adding some tap water back in? Most people can do a 70/30 mix and get the water they need for breeding. I assume you are breeding, if you are not then you don't need to mess with Ro at all.

-john

[DiscusLoverJeff]

My pleasure Pat. Been there myself.

[-gb-]

GB,

If you are trying to have balance in your RO water, just make your own remineralizing mix, or just buy RO Right.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...ter&highlight=

What exactly are you try to get from your water? You should be storing your water in a holding barrel. Then get your desired TDS (PH won't matter since your RO water PH is usually stable at 6.6 (+ or -). Once you add the mix I am suggesting, your RO PH should not change and now you will have stability.

Let me know if you have any other concerns.

Thanks Jeff,

It will take me some time to gather the powdered compounds on your list (maybe longer since I live in Canada). in the meantime can you help me with a short term fix?

What I'm trying to do is stabilize my PH and add back in the good nutrients that the fish need.

1st PH stability: I find that my PH will drop to 5.5 in my holding barrel. I'd like to have it hold at about 7. Would adding crushed coral to my canaster filter hold my ph at 7. If it goes higher than 7 my Co2 will kick in and lower it.

2nd adding minerals back into my RO water: what is my best plan for doing this? Seachem Equilibrium or Discus Trace, or Kent RO Right or something different?

Please tell me if I'm going in the wrong direction here I'm open to listening to your advice.

[-gb-]

There may be a reason but why are you noe just adding some tap water back in? Most people can do a 70/30 mix and get the water they need for breeding. I assume you are breeding, if you are not then you don't need to mess with Ro at all.
-john

Thanks John, I'm using RO because the municipal water out of my tap is the pits. f I recall correctly they are:
Ammonia reading = .25 - .50 ppm
Nitrite reading = .25 - .50 ppm
Nitrate = 10 - 15ppm

This is why I'm using 100% RO.

[jsullins]

GB
You should be able to dial in the ph you are looking for using Seachem Alkaline and Acid buffers, as far as putting the nutrients back in the water if you cant find r/o right get some replenish by Seachem. That's what I use and I have not had any issues.
Are you adding the Seachem Alkaline and Acid buffers right before you put the water in the tank or are you putting them in and letting them age in the barrel?

[-gb-]

ok - so here is what I am doing today:

I added 1 cup of crushed coral to my canaster filter to help naturally increase my KH. My KH is currently sitting between 3&4. I'm monitoring this.
I've added Seachem Equilibrium to my holding tank and have the GH holding at 3.
The current PH in my tank is 6.90. If it goes any higher my c02 will kick in and bring it down.
I'm also adding Seachem Discus Essentials directly to the tank.
I'll do a 25% water change today and retest everything.


Anything I'm doing wrong? Jeff I know you recommended Kent RO Right but I think Seachem Equilibrium is the same thing. If I'm incorrect, please let me know.

[Repairman]

GB,

There are many reasons to use RO water and many reasons not to use it. I am not trying to get into an argument about RO water but in my experience there are more disadvantages in using RO water than advantages, especially when RO water is used to grow or just keep fish. I totally agree with John: unless I'm breeding my fish or have a very special case or situation, I'm trying to stay away from RO water.

In your case, if you are using RO water because of high concentration of ammonia, nitrites and nitrates in your tap water, there are a few other options/alternatives to RO water in dealing with this problem which, I think, are safer and healthier for your fish and cheaper and easier for you.

The main point is that you are using that 65 gallon drum to store and treat the water before adding it to the tank. Here is what I suggest to do:

1. Fill the drum with tap water;

2. Add Prime to the water volume according to Seachem's directions. Their recommended dosage is 1 ml of Prime for 10 gallon of water. In your case you will need 6.5 milliliters of Prime for 65 gallon of water. Adding Prime to the water will neutralize the possible chlorine or chloramine and also will turn ammonia and nitrites in less toxic substances;

3. Replace the bubbler with an air driven, fully cycled sponge filter. Try to get the biggest sponge filter you can or, if you have sufficient air pressure, use multiple sponge filters. I recommend Hydro-Sponge Pro # 5 (regular or "narrow"not coarse) from Jehmco (http://www.jehmco.com/html/hydro-sponge_filters.html). By using this fully cycled filters there will be plenty of "good bacteria" to deal with the substances resulting from ammonia and nitrite after Prime treatment. Also, in time there will also be areas deep inside the sponges where, because of the reduced flow, the water will be depleted of oxygen (the aerobic bacteria will use it) and anaerobic bacteria will start to grow. These guys will break some of the nitrates.
If you don't have fully cycled filters, which you probably don't, you can cycle them in your tanks but this will take a few weeks. What I recommend is "Dr. Tim's Aquatics - One and only" (http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...m?pcatid=18986). The product works great and it will "cycle" the filters in just 2-3 days. Just add the recommended dosage to the 65 gallon drum. One last thing about the sponge filters: never rinse, clean or wash them once they are fully cycled and working. There is no need for "cleaning" the sponges since there are no debris or waste in the water. By "cleaning" them you just disturb the bacteria population and reduce the efficiency of the filter;

4. At this point it should be no chlorine, chloramine, ammonia or nitrites in the water but there still will be nitrates, and plenty of them, because in addition to the initial nitrate dose, now you also have nitrates coming as a "by product" from the aerobic bacteria. Some of the nitrates will be removed by the anaerobic bacteria deep inside the sponge filters but it will take a lot of time for the anaerobic bacteria to get established and even then they will remove a reduced amount of nitrates. What I recommend in this case is to use some floating plants, like water sprite that will grow fast and will use most if not all of the nitrates. You need to put a fluorescent lamp (nothing fancy) on top of the drum and use a timer. If the lights will be on more than 10-12 hours/day algae will start to grow. The plants will float on top of the water and they will be close to the light source which will help them to grow fast. The plants will use some of the macro and micro nutrients in the water but I'm pretty sure there will be plenty minerals left for your fish. The plant will remove the nitrates and will add some oxygen back to the water.

Maybe it sounds a little bit complicated but once is established, the water treatment "plant" will work pretty well. The only thing you need to do is add Prime every time you replace the water and trim the plants every once in a while.

I hope this will help you. Good luck!

Ed

[-gb-]

Repairman, thanks for taking the time to help. I'm reading over your suggestions and it sounds like natural solution to my problem. I'm going to do some more reading on this and see if it's something I can implement. It may not be an immediate solution but something I can implement with some time/work.

Thanks for the help.

[Nick Klimkowski]

I use 80% RO to 20% aged tap. The tap water helps to stabilize the RO.
-Nick