Against All Odds

[Discusdude7]

Pics?

[nc0gnet0]

If the fish is pooping out worms, why are you treating with an anti-biotic. I would start with some prazi (tapes) and follow up with some levanisol (round worms).

[dirtyplants]

Perhaps I mentioned in this post he is too weak for meds, and it would be a good time for testing garlic as a parasite eliminator.
And yes parasites did come out after treatment, and if any died internally bacteria infection would be my next step. If I did not make that clear I am sorry.

[joanstone]

http://www.monsterfishkeepers.com/fo...a-Spironucleus

Not sure how relevant this is to your situation (or more precisely, your fish's), but I found this interesting.

[nc0gnet0]

Perhaps I mentioned in this post he is too weak for meds, and it would be a good time for testing garlic as a parasite eliminator.
And yes parasites did come out after treatment, and if any died internally bacteria infection would be my next step. If I did not make that clear I am sorry.

So, in your opinion the parasites that he has inside him are easier for him to deal with then the medication it would take to eliminate them? For the record, prazi is a really gentle med, this is a good starting point. You need to treat for the parasites first, then if problems exist treat for internal bacterial issues. Garlic is not going to rid the fish of parasites completely, and when used it needs to be in the food itself, not the water colum.

[Skip]

Rick..surely op is not adding garlic to water?.. right?!

[dirtyplants]

Again garlic is an experiment with this fish that was well on the way of being classified as dead. If the garlic did its job, as some have mentioned, then the next step would be to give something for bacteria infection.
Black, paper thin and bony, bulging eyes, cloudy fungus fins and definitely worms is what this fish is like. I have not figured out how to get pics up directly yet. The fish responds to the garlic but seems to go under when the meds were administered. Responses welcome, input very welcome but please remember the context of this experiment, which is can a fish be given natural substances, when it is so far gone, and brought back to health. Or can a fish this far gone actually turn it's health around? All in all it has survived much longer then I would have expected. He has a great desire to survive.

[Second Hand Pat]

When a fish gets in this condition I have found that the fish tries to pick at food but can not seem to find it. Like it can not see well enough. Perhaps the bulging of the eyes distorts the vision and the fish fails to be able to eat. I have wondered if force feeding the fish at this point would be an option using a pipette.

[dirtyplants]

Thanks Pat I also have noticed his eye site to be off. I have never tried forcing a fish to eat, have no idea how to get it down his throat I have thought about it. Have you ever tried this?

[nc0gnet0]

You need a syringe and some small airline tubing. insert into mouth until you feel resistance, then you need to gently force it past this resistance just a bit. If you dont go far enough into the throat, the food mixture will come out the gills.

Black, paper thin and bony, bulging eyes, cloudy fungus fins and definitely worms is what this fish is like.

I realize it is an experiment, but the humane thing to do would be to euthanize the fish. When fish reach this point, more often then not there is permanent internal organ damage. Kidneys and liver shut down, etc etc. Garlic is generally understood to be a preventative for internal parasites when added to the food, but I really don't think your going to get any results with it adding it to the water. With that being said, I am always up for a good experiment, and learning how to force feed a fish would be a valuable lesson, and it appears you have the perfect fish to experiment with. If your willing to go with the force feeding, get some flake with fenbendazole in it to administer, and in the meantime, add some prazi to the water, it will be more than likely easier for the fish to tolerate than the mix your currently using (be it homopathic or not).

Rick

[dirtyplants]

Thanks Rick, this is very good information in which I deeply appreciate. I know what the humane thing is and have considered it many times, but this fish just gets to me, no logic, or common sense to it. Once in a while I have found one fish that despite all odds and with no expectations you want to help it's fight.
Perhaps it is just me, given that 2 1/2 years ago I had to go into the emergency admittance at the hospital, and was given 6 to 9 weeks to live. Some specific doctors refused to give up on me so maybe that is in the back of head some where.

[joanstone]

Generally, I have absolutely no problem whacking a fish that is far gone. That being said, I've had a couple of instances where I didn't and much to my surprise, the fish in question actually came back. One was a huge oranda that I thought was dead and put outside in a bucket with it's water to bury later. My brother-in-law came upon it and I believe had visions of using it for fishing bait. He discovered that the fish wasn't quite dead and so I proceeded to continue with "treatment". The fish rebounded and lived for quite a while after that. The other instance is a pair of angel fish that I thought were well beyond saving. They had horrendous bacterial and parasitic issues. I was ready to dispose of them, but decided to wait. They are not out of the woods yet, but have recently started eating again. They look much, much better and I have hope that they will make it. BTW, garlic is fine in an aquarium. I can't speak to it's real effectiveness, but people do it. It has been used in saltwater tanks as well. The Garlic Extreme indicates in it's directions that it can be used directly in the aquarium.

[PP_GBR]

Try Easy Life Voogle or Vitamin C. If you'd try Vit C, 1-2 mg per 1 gallon for 1 or 2 day then treat with Metro. How is he breathing, with both gills?

[Mulletpullet]

I think people are being a tad hasty in euthanizing the fish. Anything you learn could help save future fish. So even if you are dragging this out for the poor guy, I think the greater good outweighs any ethical dilemma this poses.

I find this whole thing very interesting. It would be awesome to see some photos of the progress.

My local breeder told me that his father is currently in a nursing home type facility, and that he is a caregiver for him there. I know that experience has got to be brutal on him. He currently has a severely stunted/birth deformed Discus that he normally would have culled. But he isn't, he's nurturing it, and keeping it going, and housing the poor guy. I could definitely see how personal experiences could make a person treat animals differently.

I enjoy reading this thread, and am pulling for the guy.

[nc0gnet0]

Easy Life Voogle-Snake oil, much like melafix. Throwing together a few off the shelf vitamins and herbs and claiming to "boost" the immune system in a fish is a joke, meant to only alieve the uneducated hobbiest from his hard earned money. Doctors have been trying to understand the immune system in humans for centuries, and no product has yet to be developed that has been proven (although if you watch late night infomercials many claim too) to boost the immune response significantly yet. But yet we are supposed to beleive that such an achievement has been made in fish? I don't think so.