Against All Odds

[Nick Klimkowski]

4th week furan 2 almost did him in. Started hiding and acting like I was going to make a meal out of him. Funny how creatures act in terror like everyone else fighting for their lives. Nothing will convince me that creatures do not feel basic emotions, translated into instincts. So now that I almost killed him I have him on garlic once again, if I can get him back to eating I will try metro.

Hope he continues to do better for you.

[PP_GBR]

Master Rick

Are you sure about snake oil? I had a bottle in front of me and could not find any where it lists the ingredient. It does not smell like melafix either LOL? If you don't believe in vitamins, why do you add vitamins in your BH mix LOL? No matter what kind of meds you throw in your tanks, it's the fish immunity to fight back the disease. All we could do for the fish is to help boost its immune system so it could fight the disease on its own.

[nc0gnet0]

If you don't believe in vitamins, why do you add vitamins in your BH mix LOL?

PP_NACL

For the same reason I take vitamins and don't bathe in them.

No matter what kind of meds you throw in your tanks, it's the fish immunity to fight back the disease.

I fish's immune system can do very little against a parasitic attack, not to mention this particular fish's immune system is so severly compromised, it will never recover without help of first eliminating the parasites.

All we could do for the fish is to help boost its immune system so it could fight the disease on its own.

Sounds good in theory, if only such a product existed, many claim to, none actually do. A fish's immune system is kept healthy by good food and clean water, not by tossing snake oil into the tank.

[dirtyplants]

Snake oil, LOL, well I take a lot of snake oil I guess, because I know it aids my immunity. I look at it like this, I have the opportunity to test out the snake oil and get to see if it is an old wise tale or if there is some valid immune responses. I would not bet my paycheck on the results, but I am open to the opportunity and just look at this as research. If you want to debate immune systems and the spirit of living creatures, you might want to talk to MDs because they know the spirit of a individual has a lot to do with strong immune systems.

I fish's immune system can do very little against a parasitic attack, not to mention this particular fish's immune system is so severly compromised, it will never recover without help of first eliminating the parasites.

If this fish gets to the point where I feel it can handle sever deworming it will then happen, but until then I will do what I can to get it to that point. There are two choices at this point: give up let it die or help it try to build up its immune system, which is hard with a fish unless it is absorbed by the skin. I don't give up. Rick I somehow get the impression you don't give up either.

[jimg]

Thanks Pat I also have noticed his eye site to be off. I have never tried forcing a fish to eat, have no idea how to get it down his throat I have thought about it. Have you ever tried this?

I have experimented many times with fish in this state force feeding does not work, only torments the fish more. flagellates will put the fish in this condition as well as worms. I could guarantee the fish is loaded with granulomas you will not save it, put it down. garlic is only a preventative at best. that fish is only a breeding ground for disease that will effect all your other fish.

[nc0gnet0]

Rick I somehow get the impression you don't give up either.

Depends on the circumstance to which you are refering. In my case, if I were to have a fish such as the one your trying to save, he would have been euthanized a long time ago, or, never brought home in the first place. Why? Not becasue I am cruel and heartless, but rather he would pose to big a danger to my existing fish. I have twenty five tanks with thousands of dollars in fish, why take the risk?

In your particular case, I don't think your looking at the problem logically. You have witnessed the fish expelling worms, so, we know he has parasitic issues. Your thinking that you might be able to somehow make him stronger so he can eventually make it through the deworming process. This I understand, but disagree with the logic. these worms are living inside your fish's gi track, robbing him of essential nutritents, unless they are dealt with and dealt with properly and promptly, your fish's immune system and overall health will continue to go down hill. So, in order for your fish's immune system to ever have a possible chance of recovering to a healthy state, you must first kill the worms, nematodes, and quite possibly hex that it now has. Can I guarantee that he will make it through the deworming? No, but I do firmly believe that is his best chance.

As for the vitamins issue, I am not arguing against there use, but they should be used with food, not administered in the water colum like PP_GBR has suggested. If I can paraphrase, you have a fish with scarlet fever, and your hoping to cure him with cough medicine.

Pick up a bottle of Prazi-pro, it's gentle, and will suffice for ridding the fish of tape worms. Treat for two days. If for some reason he does die during treatment, death was his destiny.

[nc0gnet0]

I have experimented many times with fish in this state force feeding does not work, only torments the fish more. flagellates will put the fish in this condition as well as worms. I could guarantee the fish is loaded with granulomas you will not save it, put it down. garlic is only a preventative at best. that fish is only a breeding ground for disease that will effect all your other fish.

I agree with you Jim, but I know Al has had success in the past with this (for the record I never have). It does allow you to get fenbendazol into the gut of the fish if the fish is not eating however.

[GeauxDiscus]

So, in your opinion the parasites that he has inside him are easier for him to deal with then the medication it would take to eliminate them? For the record, prazi is a really gentle med, this is a good starting point. You need to treat for the parasites first, then if problems exist treat for internal bacterial issues. Garlic is not going to rid the fish of parasites completely, and when used it needs to be in the food itself, not the water colum.

+1 - Both Prazi and Levamisole will be gentle and fast, and will help the little guy get through the parasite portion first. Then treat with antibiotics once he's recovered somewhat.

[dirtyplants]

Thanks guys I have already treated for tape with prazi, if he makes another week I will then treat with levamisole. The garlic treatments continue though because he reacts well with this treatment. I am told by physicians that garlic is absorbed through the skin, and as long as he reacts well to it I will continue it. I do not have the equipment to determine the effects of garlic on fish so nothing will ever be conclusive, I can only watch and wait and proceed with one step at a time.

Week five
treated the tape with prazi
will wait a week and see how he responds and then if no change or for the better will take the next step with Levamisole.

[nc0gnet0]

Can I ask how you treated using prazi? Dosage, duration of time, etc? did you see him expell any tapeworms?

[dirtyplants]

Friday was prazi pro day, treatment according to directions. Yes I have a picture of him expelling a tape, just don't know how to upload it. Today gets the water change 24 hours, will retreat according to directions. Gotta run!

[Argentum]

Friday was prazi pro day, treatment according to directions. Yes I have a picture of him expelling a tape, just don't know how to upload it. Today gets the water change 24 hours, will retreat according to directions. Gotta run!

First of all thank you for sharing your experience, seeing some pictures for the progress will be beneficial for all.

You can post pictures easily by:
1- create an account in www.photobucket.com, or a similar website
2- upload pictures to your account
3- when you open any of the pictures you uploaded in the website they will give you four types of links to each one.
4- select the link starting with [IMG] for the desired picture
5- just paste the link when you are writing the post and when you post it, it will appear as a pic.

Done!

Keep us updated

[dirtyplants]

Thanks will try as soon as I have the time. Last picture I tried to up load Pat had to do her magic on it to make it appear.

[Second Hand Pat]

Next time I will post what I did to make it appear.

[OC Discus]

I've been looking for that process. Thanks! Do you just paste the link inline with the text, or do you have to use a tool like "add a link" on the sd website?

First of all thank you for sharing your experience, seeing some pictures for the progress will be beneficial for all.

You can post pictures easily by:
1- create an account in www.photobucket.com, or a similar website
2- upload pictures to your account
3- when you open any of the pictures you uploaded in the website they will give you four types of links to each one.
4- select the link starting with [IMG] for the desired picture
5- just paste the link when you are writing the post and when you post it, it will appear as a pic.

Done!

Keep us updated