The Forum's Position on Discus in Planted Tanks....

[brewmaster15]

Hello all,
Just thought I would clarify this as I have seen far too much BS on the subject here over the years. The Forum's Position on Discus in planted tanks is that it has no Position. It really doesn't care what you do with your fish. The forum is an inanimate object that does not have a position on anything. It reflects the feelings of its members on any subject. Seems like a no-brainer, but I just want to be sure that people don't think otherwise. Personally I am neither for against them, which is why I give a section of the forum to them. What I am against is poor information on both sides of the issue. Personal views are also welcome on issues, but they are called opinions and should be expressed as such. It is equally wrong in my book to say you can't keep discus well in a planted tank as it is to say you can easily do so. There are factors involved in both these views that either make them accurate or terribly flawed.
Seriously though, over the years theres been alot of arguments and discussion on the subject. Some people love discus in a planted tank and are very successful according to what they are trying to achieve. Other have tried this approach and failed miserably. Still others have attributed many problems people report to the fish being in planted tank. I think its time for another open discussion on this. This is to be a respectful, civil, open discussion where ideas, and experiences are shared, evidence for opposing views is layed out. Zero tolerance for trolls so think twice before you post. Theres no reason why a discussion on this can't take place in this fashion.


My personal views are as Follows..
1) Yes you can succcessfully raise, grow and keep discus well in a planted tank...IF, and here is whats always missing from the proponents side of the arguement. You can do this if you have both an excellent understanding of Discus husbandry and care, and Planted tank know how. Have one with out the other and you will fail if you try to keep your discus in a planted tank..You may still fail if you have both, but the odds are better.

2)The definition of Success... Just what exactly are you trying to accomplish with your discus tank and the occupants. Its different for everyone...some want huge fish, others just happy to have a few discus swimming around in a tank .

3)Lets end the myth. Theres been so many pictures in the books that show discus in a planted tank. the green plants really show of their colors, its often the first image a new hobbyists sees when they see discus in books and magazine. Its a LIE. It gives the impression that Discus come from areas that are lush with aquatic plants. Nothing could be farther from the truth. It is fine to want to keep your discus in planted tank. I have over the years, I have kept them in bare tanks, my current tank is sand and driftwood, which I feel is probably a closer to nature thing... People succeed at all of these things....and they fail as well. Its a personal choice.

4) For the Novice ....12 years ago I got together with other hobbyists to make a place where people can learn about discus and share their info. This Forum is an educational place with the stated objective of promoting good care and husbandry. I will always direct novices to keeping discus to what I feel is the safesty way for them be successful at keeping discus. That way is the one with the least variables... clean water, good stock, discus only,good food, good temp, bare bottom tank. Its what many do here as well because it works. The more parameters you add the harder it is to succeed. What you do with this information is your choice...BUT I would be failing in my goals here if I did not promote this method. For those that want to see their discus in a planted tank. They are your fish...go for it, but learn to walk before you run. Spend some time reading our planted tank section, talk to those that know this subject, and sign up with a forum that specializes in "planted tanks" to learn how to best meet your goal...Then come back here and share that information in the section We gave you to do this in.

5)Bare bottom tankers... When will you ever learn that you can not make someone who likes planted tanks see that Discus are probably not the best fish for them? Thats something people learn on their own, or disprove on their own. You can only show what you do and demonstrate how it works by example. The Planted tank people need to do the same...you aren't going to convert a Bare Tanker Enthusiast to start running planted tank by words alone. However if you share the hows and whys and document your successes, you will over time gain more converts ..or at least be respected for having a viable way to successfully raise discus.

6) Just like there are many variations on keeping discus in a bare tank... sand only, driftwood only, terrestrial vines, etc, "Planted tanks" have a huge variation. Low tech, high tech, sparsely planted, CO2 injected. All of these variations have their pros and cons with regards to discus. lets try to be a little more specific on what exactly we mean by "planted" and "bare"

7) I have personally seen some very low tech tanks and highly planted tanks with discus in them that were successful for years. A good friend of mine had a high tech heavy planted tank that was amazing. They too succeeded by their standards and goals, and by mine in these cases. They raised some nice fish...but they put the time into understanding "planted" tanks, and they did the same with understanding Discus.

8)Some people that promote bare bottom tanks have not actually kept planted tanks.. These members may have extensive discus keeping experience and have learned by reading the forum posts that in many cases when people have issues with their discus, planted tanks can be a factor. This is not a fallacy. Its a fact. Its not meant to knock planted tank peoples methods, but it illustrates a serious problem in the planted tank community here. You don't educate well enough. Those of you that are successful are often so worried about having the bare tank crowd knock you that you don't share where you succeed and fail. Thats self defeating. How can expect people to change their views if you don't do more than Rant. We have given you a section to do this in....USE it to educate.... who really cares what others think ? That doesn't mean that you won't get challenged and have to defend yourself and methods. Where would we be in this hobby if people didn't question the "fact" that an undergravel filter was perfect for discus, or that you had to keep them in soft acidic water? Theres no doubt People can have a beautiful planted discus Tank... BUT HOW? thats for you to show and prove.

9) Having a planted Discus tank often means needing to make a compromise between what a healthy planted tank needs and what a healthy discus needs. neglict one over the other and you will fail.

10) Most planted tanks rely on ditherfish,clean up crews, may have inverts like snails that carry disease. Its probably one of the primary problem spots in the planted tank with discus scenario and often neglected as a point of concern, IMO..

Okay, so there you have it... members of the Planted Discus Tank community, I encourage you guys to stand up and be counted, and share your experiences. I'll go one further, I have a section of the forum here that is need of your development. Why not start writing some infoposts and articles. Our staff here will be glad to post them and organize for you. WE can do planted tank of month type contests. What I need though is dialogue and information...Not the more common "we're the under dog here, the forum doesn't like us." The truth is the reputation of keeping Discus in a Planted tank is the responsibility of YOU...the planted tank experts here...NOT THE FORUM. We've given you the tools to do so.. organize yourselves and go for it. First step is communicate,educate, and mentor.

As for the non-planted tank people here.. You can only honestly share what you know first hand. Show what you do as well and why, but keep in mind that what you want for your fish, is not the same as what someone else wants.. These debates and discussions about the pro's and cons of a certain way of keeping discus needs to take that into account.

Mods and Admins will monitor this discussion closely...so please be mindful. I've shared my views openly here. They are based on my years in the hobby and the Forum. In closing I am not against planted tanks, nor is "The Forum" Anyone is welcome to share theirs.. Ideally If you have a planted tank, I would strongly encourage you to post it here, share the info fully as to what you do and why... and take questions...Its your best chance to gain the respect you are looking for.

Best always,
Al

Old post this guy made ... but Wow he nailed it! just wanted it to quote him and bring it to the forefront again since it was 32 pages ago and not many will read that far back! Though honestly its a great read and sonething you don't get on facebook

[RickyB]

Hi Al, thanks for reposting this. I agree with virtually every point and should be read by everyone in attempting to keep discus in a planted tank. What I love about it is that it dispels the myths that there absolutes in keeping discus and plants. You are not limited to a bare bottom tank, or a hardscape with only driftwood and sand. But there are things that you have to consider if you plan on keeping discus and plants together successfully.

I read the original post before embarking on a planted tank and have used the information to guide the process. There are definitely things I've learned along the way from experience but I believe I've now reached a point where I'm content with the health of my discus and plants. I have a low tech rather heavily planted tank. It's now been a year and I can say with some certainty that it is possible to have a healthy, vibrant tank where the fish and plants can coexist and thrive.

However, I've learned that there are some things that are absolutely necessary to succeed. First of all, the tank has to be maintained meticulously. That means regular at minimum weekly maintenance. I don't add external ferts and use fish waste as a fertilizer as a result I clean the tank once a week. I wouldn't recommend using gravel because it makes cleaning the tank more difficult. Having said that, I have gravel because my wife insisted so I tried to make it work. But it requires that you siphon the bottom of the tank thoroughly every week.

You have to quarantine the plants. Your tenth point alerts to possible things that may be introduced into the tank, not the least of which is the introduction of pest snails. Even after doing that, inevitably some may still appear. I use clown loach to keep their population down. But that means introducing another fish that has to be quarantined.

You also have to select the type of plants that will survive in the temperatures that will keep the discus healthy. I don't keep a planted tank with discus in it, I keep a discus tank with plants in it. Therefore if you buy plants that thrive in 78 degree temps or lower, you will not be successful because at minimum the temperature of a discus tank should be at 82. The corollary to this is that I think experience in keeping discus is a prerequisite. It will make the transition easier. I have found in my experience that Anubias work best. They are epiphytes and are tied to driftwood and rocks making moving them during cleaning very easy.

Making knowledgeable decisions will help in the success of a planted tank. Read everything you can in this forum, starting with the original post. Ask help from the many informed and experienced discus keepers in here. Finally, don't be afraid to attempt things. You may fail, but the journey is half the fun.