The Forum's Position on Discus in Planted Tanks....

[nc0gnet0]

Sorry to disappoint...... This would make a boring sticky. LOL!!

I wasnt refering to the whole thread, rather how you would recomend a planted tank be setup. You have already given some pretty good information in regards to a template (as was requested). Information I might add that is not being readily followed as of yet. Of particular note:

Stocking densities in a planted tank are typically 1/2 that of thier BB equivalent
QT is critical, once a planted tank is diseased, it's too late.
A tank of at least 100 gallons is strongly recomened (you need this size to accomodate a small group of five discus, smaller groups don't do well).
C02 injection at a minimum
Additional water filtration methods would be helpful to achieve a higher level of success.

As to your 2-3 month no fish QT of the planted tank (after diseased), not sure if that would suffice, or be practical (over that of a complete start over replacing all plants and substrate) but that is a question maybe a noted resident biologist might be able to comment on.

Ok, now, would all planted tank enthusiast (other than you Chad) that have met these standards or come close and, have posted to this thread please stand up?

[DLFL]

I just saw this thread. I am but a newbie with just 16 months with discus. At the moment I use low tech planting to help hide my filtration. This tank is in my living room. The worse thing of having the plants for me is that they are a magnet for waste and food. I have do a good job of cleaning this out of them. I grew out the fish in a bare bottom before adding the substrate and plants. The substrate is not a problem.

[nc0gnet0]

They look nice Dick. I think the key here is you grew them out in a BB tank. You will find most of us "BB" freaks are much more passionate about our methods in the "grow out" phase, and tend to relax a little (although there still can be issues) once the fish has reached adult size.

-Rick

[Chad Hughes]

I wasnt refering to the whole thread, rather how you would recomend a planted tank be setup. You have already given some pretty good information in regards to a template (as was requested). Information I might add that is not being readily followed as of yet. Of particular note:

Stocking densities in a planted tank are typically 1/2 that of thier BB equivalent
QT is critical, once a planted tank is diseased, it's too late.
A tank of at least 100 gallons is strongly recomened (you need this size to accomodate a small group of five discus, smaller groups don't do well).
C02 injection at a minimum
Additional water filtration methods would be helpful to achieve a higher level of success.

As to your 2-3 month no fish QT of the planted tank (after diseased), not sure if that would suffice, or be practical (over that of a complete start over replacing all plants and substrate) but that is a question maybe a noted resident biologist might be able to comment on.

Ok, now, would all planted tank enthusiast (other than you Chad) that have met these standards or come close and, have posted to this thread please stand up?

Rick,

This information is just what I did. I'm not saying that these are firm guidelines, just my experiences.

Just to clarify some of your "Of particular note" mentions.....

1. You coulld stock more than just 6 in this type of setup. Six is a minimum and a general rule of thumb for keeping a group of discus. My first planted tank began as a 125 with 12 discus. They were the average purchase size of about 2.5 to 3". That tank eventually grew to 23 adults at one point. I do not advise attempting to breed in or raise fry in a planted tank. Average purchase size discus will do fine.

2. QT is critical in any tank setup be it BB or planted. This is pretty much discus 101.

3. The large tank suggestion is for water parameter balance. It's far easier to balance a tank of 100+ gallons than it is to balance a 55 gallon tank. This also holds true for BB tanks. If you screw up something in a large aquarium, the impact is far more forgiving. Set yourself up for success and give yourself some room to breathe.

4. I prefer CO2 and feel that it's important. If you choose to use CO2, the CONTROLLER is a minimum.

5. Any filtration that improves water quality is a good thing! My first discus/planted tank did not use any additional "technology" other than the CO2. The CO2, IMHO is important to promote the acceleration of plant growth which will result in a drastic reduction in byproducts of the nitirfication process. There are plants that do not require CO2 but grow slowly and are not large nutrient sponges.

You seem to have a pretty strong drive toward the expectation of disease. Not that you shouldn't plan for that, but you speak of it frequently. I find that my occurance of disease has been very minimal. In fact, the issues that I have experienced keeping discus have been minor and easily remedied in a QT tank. The ocassional bout of bloat from a Blue Diamond or a fish injury. I can't tell you the last time I've had to use a chemical to reactively treat a fish. I'm talking hundreds of fish, not just a tank of 6 or so. I'm not saying that it can't happen but healthy fish are typically healthy fish and stay that way. Good stock cannot be underestimated!

In regard to an outbreak of, let's say, flukes.... Never had this problem but I've read that even in a bare bottom tank, it's best to completely start over using bleach. Either way, if you insert parasite ridden discus "A" in to any tank "B", you're starting over from scratch "C". A+B=C.

[Udeservit]

K, I don't want to give up on Discus and raise guppies HOWEVER!!!!!, I am in big trouble and everyone here with the exception of 2 are uninterested in my situation. Maybe because my tank is Planted???? Maybe because Im such a newbie that i didn't quarantine and that irritates the $#@% out of u? Ive been reading and reading my eyes out, but by the time i read enough to figure this out on my own I'm likely to make another big mistake.
I have hex in a planted tank. Its not there because its planted, its there because I bought a sick fish and didn't quarantine. The comments on this thread seem to be stating that u can't treat a planted tank? I don't know if I need a hospital tank or if i need to treat the whole tank.PM if you would be willing to help....I really had no idea There was such a hard line between BB and Planted until I joined here recently. Im learning, please be nice.

Does this mean i have to start over a+b = c ?

[Chad Hughes]

Kelly,

You've broken major cardinal rules, as you've mentioned, and this happens a lot on the forum. Many times folks dive head first in to a discus tank with little or no research done.

You need a hosptial tank. Never medicate a planted tank.

This is what I would do if I were in your shoes.... Put the discus in a QT tank and treat them until they are well then give them a month and monitor their health and growth. Start over with your planted tank. Once your plant tank is thriving and your discus are healthy, try again.

You are learning from your mistakes. This is VERY common in discus keeping and IMHO is one of the best ways to learn. You'll be street smart as well as book smart. I wish you all the best!

[Udeservit]

Or they just have spent some time in the disease section trying to reason with people why treatment in a planted tank is often futile, that even when and if they do pull there fish and properly treat them in a "glass box" as soon as they put them back into the planted tank, re-occurrence (if the disease was parasitic) is almost a given. In such cases most of the time (not always) it's the plants that seem to have more value to the hobbyist then the discus.

And yes, this does frustrate some of us in the "glass box" crowd.

Kelly,

You've broken major cardinal rules, as you've mentioned, and this happens a lot on the forum. Many times folks dive head first in to a discus tank with little or no research done.

You need a hosptial tank. Never medicate a planted tank.

This is what I would do if I were in your shoes.... Put the discus in a QT tank and treat them until they are well then give them a month and monitor their health and growth. Start over with your planted tank. Once your plant tank is thriving and your discus are healthy, try again.

You are learning from your mistakes. This is VERY common in discus keeping and IMHO is one of the best ways to learn. You'll be street smart as well as book smart. I wish you all the best!

Thank-you....Definitely a learning curve.

[nc0gnet0]

You seem to have a pretty strong drive toward the expectation of disease. Not that you shouldn't plan for that, but you speak of it frequently. I find that my occurance of disease has been very minimal. In fact, the issues that I have experienced keeping discus have been minor and easily remedied in a QT tank. The ocassional bout of bloat from a Blue Diamond or a fish injury. I can't tell you the last time I've had to use a chemical to reactively treat a fish. I'm talking hundreds of fish, not just a tank of 6 or so. I'm not saying that it can't happen but healthy fish are typically healthy fish and stay that way. Good stock cannot be underestimated!

Chad,

Revisit post 6. This is, after all, our target audience

[nc0gnet0]

Kelly,

You've broken major cardinal rules, as you've mentioned, and this happens a lot on the forum. Many times folks dive head first in to a discus tank with little or no research done.

You need a hosptial tank. Never medicate a planted tank.

This is what I would do if I were in your shoes.... Put the discus in a QT tank and treat them until they are well then give them a month and monitor their health and growth. Start over with your planted tank. Once your plant tank is thriving and your discus are healthy, try again.

You are learning from your mistakes. This is VERY common in discus keeping and IMHO is one of the best ways to learn. You'll be street smart as well as book smart. I wish you all the best!

Quite honestly, your stock is questionable at best. Your much better off culling the fish, doing as chad says, and buying better stock from a sponsor here on Simply. Your not going to like that advice, but I would be giving the same advice regardless of whether or not the fish were in a planted tank or not.

[Skip]

NOW THESE!!!!! are planted tanks!!!

[nc0gnet0]

3. The large tank suggestion is for water parameter balance. It's far easier to balance a tank of 100+ gallons than it is to balance a 55 gallon tank. This also holds true for BB tanks. If you screw up something in a large aquarium, the impact is far more forgiving. Set yourself up for success and give yourself some room to breathe.

This is a bit misleading. I am assuming that the Bb user with a higher bio-load, is doing daily large water changes.

[Chad Hughes]

This is a bit misleading. I am assuming that the Bb user with a higher bio-load, is doing daily large water changes.

BB users are changing high volumes of water regardelss.

With aquariums in general, larger volumes of water are easier to deal with when it comes to stability. Your margin of error is vastly increased in big tanks.

[Udeservit]

Quite honestly, your stock is questionable at best. Your much better off culling the fish, doing as chad says, and buying better stock from a sponsor here on Simply. Your not going to like that advice, but I would be giving the same advice regardless of whether or not the fish were in a planted tank or not.

After seeing many Discus photos here I am aware that my stock is sub par, however I do still think they are quite nice to look at and thank goodness I'm experiencing trial and error with sub par Discus. If I'm able to make this work I'll be confident to try more expensive and better stock. Why would you think I wouldn't like your comment? "I am aware" just in the learning stages.
Chad was kind enough to offer me some good advice.

[Chad Hughes]

Not saying that a planted tank can't work, only that it is much harder to do right, and should never be a new hobbiest first attempt.

-Rick

And I agree Rick! It IS easier to put discus in a BB tank. I have never argued that. Is it the best first way to go? Probably not.

Chad,

Revisit post 6. This is, after all, our target audience

Target? I'd hate think we are targeting anyone. I prefer to keep this as an open debate about HOW each method works. Targeting is something a politician does to gain votes. Most of the time it's actually intimidation and fear that seems to work best to gain a political audience. Are you running for office?

Your argument seems to teeter between what's easier for the new hobbyist and what's best for discus.

If you are new to discus, literally have no knowledge and are giving it your first go, keping things as simple as possible is clearly the best approach. Many times even this approach fails, sadly.

As for the seasoned folks in the audience, either BB or planted will work well. You have to know what you're doing.

Have you tried keeping discus in anything other than a BB tank? If so, what were your lessons learned?

[John_Nicholson]

Man go to the deer lease for the weekend and then come down with the flu and you miss all the fun.....

I tried to read all of the thread but did it in a hurry so I probably missed some stuff but with any good debate the first thing to do is to set the definitions. I have seen it hinted at but never set. I have seen some pretty pictures of some planted tanks but nothing that blew my socks off ( in concerns to the discus ). I have had lots of people tell me how great and large their fish were that they grew out in planted tanks......but when I made the trip to see them they were maybe 5 1/2 niches and most smaller.....now they would tell me that they were 7 inch fish and I truely believe that they think they are correct. There are exceptions ( and most of them have posted in this thread ) but most sure fire way for people to succeed is with BB. Like I have said in the past I want everyone to raise their discus how they see fit. I just don't like to see new folks mislead.

-john