The Forum's Position on Discus in Planted Tanks....

[Skip]

[nc0gnet0]

I would not say, however, that your posted results are the global "norm" simply because that data comes from a very small cross section of dicsus keepers here on this forum, specifically those that already have disease issues hence the reason for their post. Your reasoning is solid based on the data provided but cannot be considered empirical evidence based on the fact that you employ logical deduction vice verifiable data resulting from direct observation or experience. Conclusions are only as good as the data provided.

Ahh, but you see, there is the beauty of it all. They don't have to be. When the question is, "why are so many people on simply opposed to planted tanks" Then the data used becomes much more relevant. I am not trying to take a look at data on a global scale, rather the data on this forum. At this point in the discussion there has been established a lot of Con's to keeping a planted tank, and so far, the only justified Pro is "they look cool". Many of the Pro's we so often hear from the planted tank community have been shown to be misconceptions, myths and heresay.

[aalbina]

Ahh, but you see, there is the beauty of it all. They don't have to be. When the question is, "why are so many people on simply opposed to planted tanks" Then the data used becomes much more relevant. I am not trying to take a look at data on a global scale, rather the data on this forum. At this point in the discussion there has been established a lot of Con's to keeping a planted tank, and so far, the only justified Pro is "they look cool". Many of the Pro's we so often hear from the planted tank community have been shown to be misconceptions, myths and heresay.

It might be reasonable to assume that the population of respondents to such a question on this forum is in and of itself an unrepresentative forum population. One need only spend a little time here to learn very quickly that the BB crowd is pretty vocal (for what might be very good reason - but nonetheless...) - this could be slanting the "data on this forum" enough to make conclusion based on this data erroneous.

I think what Al is after is encouraging the planted tank folks, and those who want to try it, to post their experiences (good and not so good) for the benefit and discussion of all forum members perhaps thereby creating a much truer representation of the membership.

Good data is kind of my area of expertise - I've seen many bad decisions made from bad data but made with a tremendous amount of misplaced confidence.

Adam

[Second Hand Pat]

I think what Al is after is encouraging the planted tank folks, and those who want to try it, to post their experiences (good and not so good) for the benefit and discussion of all forum members perhaps thereby creating a much truer representation of the membership.

I believe this is Al's intent also and hate to see this thread became a planted tank bashing thread. Personally I am either for or against planted tanks but they should have their place here on Simply. If the experienced planted tank folks took a more active role perhaps they could mentor some of the more junior folks interested in planted tanks.

Pat

[Chad Hughes]

Ahh, but you see, there is the beauty of it all. They don't have to be. When the question is, "why are so many people on simply opposed to planted tanks" Then the data used becomes much more relevant. At this point in the discussion there has been established a lot of Con's to keeping a planted tank, and so far, the only justified Pro is "they look cool". Many of the Pro's we so often hear from the planted tank community have been shown to be misconceptions, myths and heresay.

That changes things when the question is being directed at the number of planted tank/disease instances on this forum vice why do planted tanks kill discus. I see your viewpoint.

Many people are opposed to planted tanks simply because they are foreign to them. They are complicated, difficult to understand and if your fish get sick, it's hard to deal with. To be honest, I feel planted tanks are harder than keeping discus. I agree with you, the cons are numerous on the planted side. I either enjoy a challenge or I'm crazy. Maybe a little of both! LOL! I'm sure Skip will have a comment.

I realize that many claims get made in regard to the benefits of planted tanks. I wouldn't say that the only justified pro is "they look cool", although that is certainly true. I have first hand experience with planted tanks and rearing discus in them. To me, they are simpler in regard to maintenance and the amount of water used is significantly reduced. Some folks, like myself, must take conservation of resources in stride with this hobby. Misconceptions, myths and heresay provided by planted tank enthusiasts aside, there are benefits to establishing an ecosystem. A thriving, well balanced planted tank is just that, an eco system.

Team "planted tank" rests.

[YSS]

Just because a tank has a few plants, doesn't mean it's a planted tank. I have a few plants in my tank, but I don't consider mine planted tanks. All my tanks are tanks with plants. Tank with plants are not that different from BB tanks but high tech planted tanks are a completely different animal. As long as you start with healthy discus and maintain good water quality, I don't see any issues successfully keeping discus and plants without compromising needs of both, at least in tanks with plants. I am not a high tech planted tank expert, so can't comment on that but I don't see why that would be any different.

[Chad Hughes]

It might be reasonable to assume that the population of respondents to such a question on this forum is in and of itself an unrepresentative forum population. One need only spend a little time here to learn very quickly that the BB crowd is pretty vocal (for what might be very good reason - but nonetheless...) - this could be slanting the "data on this forum" enough to make conclusion based on this data erroneous.

I think what Al is after is encouraging the planted tank folks, and those who want to try it, to post their experiences (good and not so good) for the benefit and discussion of all forum members perhaps thereby creating a much truer representation of the membership.

Good data is kind of my area of expertise - I've seen many bad decisions made from bad data but made with a tremendous amount of misplaced confidence.

Adam

Excellent points Adam!

I believe this is Al's intent also and hate to see this thread became a planted tank bashing thread. Personally I am either for or against planted tanks but they should have their place here on Simply. If the experienced planted tank folks took a more active role perhaps they could mentor some of the more junior folks interested in planted tanks.

Pat

Pat,

So far this is a good debate, and I won't tolerate bashing. I like hearing the fears placed behind the planted tank. I too was fearful of a planted tank many years ago. They're intimidating. It's already been proven that both planted and bare systems provide an environment for discus to thrive in. I think the real issue is the fear of disease and how to handle disease when the variables of a planted tank are vast.

I wish we had more planted folks here.

[Skip]

Just because a tank has a few plants, doesn't mean it's a planted tank.

Ding ding.. we have a winner

[Chad Hughes]

Plants in pots don't count. Lol!


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[nc0gnet0]

Many people are opposed to planted tanks simply because they are foreign to them. They are complicated, difficult to understand and if your fish get sick, it's hard to deal with. To be honest, I feel planted tanks are harder than keeping discus. I agree with you, the cons are numerous on the planted side. I either enjoy a challenge or I'm crazy. Maybe a little of both! LOL! I'm sure Skip will have a comment.

And there you have it, my views exactly. Not a view, however, shared by many of the planted tank enthusiets I have encountered on this forum to date.

this could be slanting the "data on this forum" enough to make conclusion based on this data erroneous.

It's not slanting the data at all when applied in the context to which I intended. When the question is "why do so many peple on simply discus oppose planted tanks", the data is extremely relevant. I might also add, it is easy to point out possible errors in a set of data, a much better counter-argument would be to produce data that contradicts the first set.

I believe this is Al's intent also and hate to see this thread became a planted tank bashing thread.

You can't have a discussion if both sides of the argument aren't fairly represented. Debate is good. Nobody has taken this to a personal level.

[Chad Hughes]

LOL! Well said Rick!

You just have to know a bit more than how to work a siphon. Balance is key. It's not for everyone, nor is a "glass box"

By the way, what does "SOS CREW" mean?

[John_Nicholson]

Chad show up to NADA and we will tell you......

-john

LOL! Well said Rick!

You just have to know a bit more than how to work a siphon. Balance is key. It's not for everyone, nor is a "glass box"

By the way, what does "SOS CREW" mean?

[Chad Hughes]

Oh I'll be there but not to find out what "SOS CREW" menas. LOL!

[dirtyplants]

LOL I tell people to buy guppies, discus are hard, delicate, take way too much work, and very expensive. Fact is if you understand the science behind the discus and their needs, and are willing to do the work keep up with the hygiene and maintenance discus are easy to keep. The same logic applies to planted tanks. Planted tanks take planning, time, not with just the hard scape, but plants at different aspects of growth, biology, and change. Once you understand the principles it becomes easy. As far as which style or type of tank is better for disease that would be a QT tank much like a hospital is for us. If you like simple then a BB tank is ideal, if you like a challenge and complex relationships then maybe a planted tank is for you.

[DonMD]

A few years ago I invited myself to one of the NEDA meetings (North East Discus Association) up in Connecticut. I was visiting my son in NY, and so the drive was very minimal. I can't remember the name of the guy who hosted the meeting, maybe someone here remembers, but he had a beautiful house, and an amazingly beautiful fully planted extravagant tank. It was truly a complete ecosystem, with some discus in it. He was, hopefully still is, a computer expert, and could monitor settings in this tank via the internet from work, dosing ferts, adjusting the CO2 levels, etc. I think the tank was about 150 gallons.

The point is that he was expert in planted aquariums, and the health of his plants was unbelievable. It seemed to me that the discus were the added feature, not the main deal. He knew all the aspects of plant health, lighting, different fertilizer parameters, it made my head spin. So I agree with Chad, I think it was who said, that planted tanks are harder than discus. Certainly that was the case for me, starting out like so many thinking to set up a planted tank with discus when I had not really ever done either before.

I have nothing but great admiration for the folks who have mastered the fully planted tank, and who can maintain them with discus. And I have a real appreciation for the knowledge and dedication that it requires.