How to identify gill flukes, any pictures?

[mmdiscus1]

Hi guys,
Two discus not eating, theseare my new discus, i got four discus total in 100 gallon planted, along with four corys- nothing else.

Reading on forum people say its either internal flaggelates or something, ot could be gill flukes..

How do u identify gill flukes? Any pictures please? I google but nothing worthy comes out. And what would be symptoms.

Thanks.


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[Tormentor]

Well for starters, if you just got them, you need to give them some time as they are getting used to not only you but their new home. It will take time for them to start eating just be patience. Now flagellates can be identify when they poop. Most people would tell you that if they poop white segmented that would probably be the sign, moreover if infection is present then the fishes would be emanciated and super pinch. (Very skinny) only then is when they would refuse to eat. And in most cases almost impossible to bring them back. Flukes present themselves usually when you see your fishes scratching against objectsl, but sometimes discus scratch too due to other factors, so scratching isn't always the best way to identify flukes. When flukes are confirm and are in an infestation form, usually the disco would stop using one gill and breathe fast using only one. So take time and investigate to see what it may be. HTH

[Skip]

MM>>

to me.. gill flukes in the tanks.. are like an urban myth.. ime.. people see a few "sign".. and treat for them.. but its probably something else going on.. like water quality or sick of something else..

i too have looked for pics.. and there are not very many.. with as much as people "DIAGNOSE" them.. there would be lots of documentation..
kind of like A.D.D. the only ones making money on this are the drug companies and fish med makers..

[dirtyplants]

OK new fish may not eat, what is their color, do they flick, or scratch, temp, water? QT them, take them out of the planted, to hard to see what is coming out and if flukes your tank will have flukes. Do they appear to have flared gills, where and how are they swimming? What does their skin look like?

[mmdiscus1]

All discus stock, four total, from 4.5 inch to 5.5 inch, got two weeks ago(first day started a thread on SD), got from a reputable breeder in Moscow,russia.

They look normal dont scratch, swim everywhere mostly middle part and top. Water temp 30degrees, wc everyother day 50%. Ph 7.4 tds 430, amon nitrite zero, nitrate about 20ppm(high from tap). Gill seems fine(again i am not an expert), they swim normal never hide frome me, the opposite if i come close by tank they swim towards me and we kinda stare at each other. Skin color look normal like first day. Fieces of the two that eat i saw- regular dark brown solid. Other two that never eat, i never saw them poop.


This is the largest one, over 5.5 inch never eats. Acts normal, but recently appeared a tiny black dot on one of the gills:



This is them coming out towards me right now when i start tsking pics


This is one of them from the fron, is it thin or normal?




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[mmdiscus1]

Sorry, this was double post. If u need more pics or info please let me know.

Pics are not the best, fish doesnt look dark like that they are much better color. Btw, those stress bar, they hide it a lot of times and become very beautiful without them.


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[pcsb23]

The only way to ID flukes is to do a scrape and scope them. Otherwise we have to treat symptomatically, some treatments are easy on the fish, some are very hard. But to be 100% sure it is flukes you need to use a microscope.

[timmy82]

I have had new adults that I just got not eat for 2 -3 weeks jsut keep changing water and offering food and they will come around most likely.

[mmdiscus1]

Hmm.. Ok, i will keep being patient. 50% WC everyother day so far for two weeks. I am trying to automate things here

About microscope, what kind of microscope are we talking about? I would like to buy one.


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[dirtyplants]

There are no symptoms of gill flukes. Nitrates a bit high, where did you get them from? I suggest you check out the disease area of this forum and become familiar with symptoms of common parasites that plague freshwater tanks.
Continue with WC and continue to entice with different foods. Are these domestic discus?

[mmdiscus1]

There are no symptoms of gill flukes. Nitrates a bit high, where did you get them from? I suggest you check out the disease area of this forum and become familiar with symptoms of common parasites that plague freshwater tanks.
Continue with WC and continue to entice with different foods. Are these domestic discus?

Nitrates from tap high.
These are domestic discus yes, but blood closer to wild discus - thats what breeder said.


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[dirtyplants]

What did the breeder feed them? What pH did the breeder keep them at? Again how long in the tank? Did you QT them before placing them in a planted tank? How often do you vacuum the bottom? Did you get from internet via breeder? What did they call these? (Name) Have you called the breeder an asked what they recommended?

[mmdiscus1]

What did the breeder feed them? What pH did the breeder keep them at? Again how long in the tank? Did you QT them before placing them in a planted tank? How often do you vacuum the bottom? Did you get from internet via breeder? What did they call these? (Name) Have you called the breeder an asked what they recommended?

Feedder fed them bh and tetra discus granules. They eat my bh and any granules i give, i made them eat it thanks to other forum members for their help with that.

In the tank, third week. Local fish seller got them from a breeder in moscow. She quaranteed them here in high temp, 33celcius for ten days, including some medicine i dont know what exactly, accrd to breeder instructions.

These are called red turquoise, breeder told me, i have contact with him via email. This is their website: discus-skat.ru

Two of themm eat ok, other two dont eat, one of those who dont eat occassionally started to pick on granules, very rarely, before it wouldnt even look that direction.. Now it goes towards food, but doesnt eat it yet.


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[pcsb23]

MM>>

to me.. gill flukes in the tanks.. are like an urban myth.. ime.. people see a few "sign".. and treat for them.. but its probably something else going on.. like water quality or sick of something else..

i too have looked for pics.. and there are not very many.. with as much as people "DIAGNOSE" them.. there would be lots of documentation..
kind of like A.D.D. the only ones making money on this are the drug companies and fish med makers..

Whilst I sort of agree with you, flukes are definitely not an urban myth. They really do exists and fish really do get them! Most people can only diagnose them symptomatically as they lack the tools, skills or desire to do it right. For the price of one adult discus people can equip themselves with a simple 'scope and with a little patience and practice can soon determine what parasite may be the cause of the fishes illness. Until folk start using scopes as a matter of course we will always be giving our best guess diagnosis based on the symptoms.

There's heaps of documentation if you look for it too, I have several books with plenty of info re flukes and many other bugs. There loads on the web, look through the University of Florida's online collection, loads of valuable stuff there.

I totally agree with your implication re water quality though that the first and best medicine to start with is lots of clean water.

Oh and if a fish has flukes it is sick btw

Hmm.. Ok, i will keep being patient. 50% WC everyother day so far for two weeks. I am trying to automate things here

About microscope, what kind of microscope are we talking about? I would like to buy one.


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Sorry for the late reply, been a bit busy here with the floods etc ... a microscope such as this one http://www.brunelmicroscopes.co.uk/fishdiseases.html would be fine, this is very similar to the one I use. As long as you can go from low mag up to 400x or so it will do fine.

There are no symptoms of gill flukes. Nitrates a bit high, where did you get them from? I suggest you check out the disease area of this forum and become familiar with symptoms of common parasites that plague freshwater tanks.
Continue with WC and continue to entice with different foods. Are these domestic discus?

Of course there are symptoms of gill flukes or any flukes. There are symptoms to any disease be it parasitic, bacterial or viral. In an ideal world anyone seeing the symptoms of flukes they should confirm the diagnosis using a scope. Once confirmed, treat. The symptoms can be shared with other parasites, some confuse the symptoms of parasites with those of poor water quality but that takes some experience to know the difference. If the fish "flash" or rub on any hard objects, including the tank floor, sides and furniture or a gill is occasionally (or permanently) clamped those are symptoms that need investigation. The flashing/rubbing is the most common symptom of flukes.

And really I wouldn't be overly concerned about 20ppm nitrates, better if lower but unlikely to be causing much issues here.

To the OP the fish in the pictures are showing some signs of stress. You haven't had these long and they will take time to adjust. Keep up with water changes, but make sure that the new water is properly warmed before adding to the tank. Temps should be around 28C no need for higher at this time. I can see it is a planted tank, not the best place to be treating discus. If you are using ferts make sure you are not overdosing these, e.g. using the E.I. method, this can stress discus, also if using carbon substitutes be very careful with those and dose at the minimum. If you have other fish in there, make sure they are compatible, some are not good tankmates for discus and will stress them.