Should I medicate?

[Discusdude7]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=54908

Taken from first post of thread:

Hi all,
For years I and many others have used GE silicone as an aquarium Sealant.. I went to buy some the other day and noticed that Both Type 1 and 2 both are now made with some kind of mold inhibitor... BIOSEAL..

http://www.geadvancedmaterials.com/g...l/bioseal.html


I would not advise using the GE Silicone anylonger if it has this additive.


hth,
al

This was an older thread so I don't know if they make it without a mold inhibitor now. Whatever is wrong I hope you get the problem sorted out soon.

[PP_GBR]

You must have a 10 gal tank, a heater and and air pump, right? I would not give up on the fish yet but rather treat it if I were you.

[MKD]

Rick, i have some meds or you need any helps let me know. good luck

pp
Furan 2
Metro

[alcastro]

Rick I am near by in near LAX just ask I will bring your carbon, metro, PP, furan2, prazi this evening when I get off work

AL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Argentum]

I would not give up on the fish, it's not in a very bad state compared to what I have seen when I had a columnaris outbreak. One red turk that was most affected made it along with another two and he is now one of my best looking fish if not the best and I mixed him with Forrest fish after QT of course with no issues.

Relax ... it will be sorted, however I understand your frustration.

I don't like the sensitivity our forum members have when advising about a fish that is from one of the sponsors.
Okay they are dealing with good quality fish and have a good customer service but that doesn't mean their discus are immune to disease.

When I had issues with one of the rafflesia not eating for 2 weeks forum members stressed on not treating because they came from a good source while Forrest & Kenny both suggested treatment.

[pcsb23]

...
To all, as of right now, I went ahead and did a salt dip, which is the only thing I have on hand currently. The discus rolled over after 10 minutes and I moved him to a QT 5g bucket. I will keep an eye on it and see how it does. I will wait a couple of days to put him back in the tank so it isn't so exposed after the dip.

In all honesty, I have pretty much given up on this fish. If it keeps deteriorating I will have to euthanize it and put it out of its misery.

We are a long way off culling just yet, have some patience. This is a large fish and can go for weeks without food and whilst it is showing some stress it is not really suffering yet.

It won't do well in a 5 gal bucket, put it back in the tank, the water in the bucket will foul very quickly.

Putting some activated carbon into a filter would at least eliminate any contaminants so may be worth doing. I'd also cut back on the amount of water you are changing for now 50% will be adequate I would think.

As for the silicone, maybe worth emailing the manufacturer, just in case.

Putting some driftwood or other objects in the tank may help, and I'd also consider a thin layer of sand as I've found non painted tank floors can spook the fish even when they have some form of board attached to them - I have a tank that has polystyrene glued to the floor and when bare all the fish spook, add some sand and they stop and I've seen the same in other peoples tanks too - don't ask me to explain why as I can't

[chaoslite]

Rick,

Just a thought if you haven't already. Retest your water out of your tap and watch it for that full minute and see if you see any changes and test it again after throwing in an air stone for 20 minutes. The DWP over on my side of the valley messed with my water about 2 years ago. I was able to use straight tap back then and ended up having to switch over to aging my water for 8 hours. The TDS also went from 264 to 334.

Mishka

[rickztahone]

Before I start replying to every single quote, I wanted to take the time to thank all of you for brainstorming and helping me through this. It had been a while since keeping discus as I mentioned, and in all honesty I forgot how much of a drag it can be when they are sick or go off eating. So, again, Thank you all.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=54908

Taken from first post of thread:



This was an older thread so I don't know if they make it without a mold inhibitor now. Whatever is wrong I hope you get the problem sorted out soon.

Thank you. I have used this specific one in the past with no problems and I didn't see anything out of the ordinary with the one I used this time (I checked earlier today too). However, I never suspected the silicone because I figured the other discus would be acting in the exact same fashion. But then again, whatever it is that is targetting this particular discus has a firmer hold than on the others. Maybe its defenses were weaker from shipping? Either way, thanks.

You must have a 10 gal tank, a heater and and air pump, right? I would not give up on the fish yet but rather treat it if I were you.

The salt dip was done this morning in a 5g bucket. I didn't have a 10g tank, actually, I am lying, I do, but I would have to disinfect it because it has a 3D background and I am not sure how the background would react to bleach, so I didn't want to take the chance. As of right now, it is still in the 5g bucket, and when I get home from work, I will put it back in the main tank.

Rick, i have some meds or you need any helps let me know. good luck

pp
Furan 2
Metro

Thanks so much Tony!

Rick I am near by in near LAX just ask I will bring your carbon, metro, PP, furan2, prazi this evening when I get off work

AL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you so much AL! You are so nice to offer. I may take you up on that actually, as I may need the meds sooner, rather than later. I will pay you whatever they cost you plus the shipping. I actually work in Santa Monica, so it isn't that far from your location. Please pm me your number if you get a chance :-)

I would not give up on the fish, it's not in a very bad state compared to what I have seen when I had a columnaris outbreak. One red turk that was most affected made it along with another two and he is now one of my best looking fish if not the best and I mixed him with Forrest fish after QT of course with no issues.

Relax ... it will be sorted, however I understand your frustration.

I don't like the sensitivity our forum members have when advising about a fish that is from one of the sponsors.
Okay they are dealing with good quality fish and have a good customer service but that doesn't mean their discus are immune to disease.

When I had issues with one of the rafflesia not eating for 2 weeks forum members stressed on not treating because they came from a good source while Forrest & Kenny both suggested treatment.

Great point, and I agree with you. The euthanize remark may have been too extreme in my frustrated state. I have not been known to give up on fish unless they are on the brink of death and I have put them out of their misery with oil. I will try everything in my power to make this one pull through, because in actual fact, it is the only one with a developing halo! (I got to look at a positive here somewhere)

We are a long way off culling just yet, have some patience. This is a large fish and can go for weeks without food and whilst it is showing some stress it is not really suffering yet.

It won't do well in a 5 gal bucket, put it back in the tank, the water in the bucket will foul very quickly.

Putting some activated carbon into a filter would at least eliminate any contaminants so may be worth doing. I'd also cut back on the amount of water you are changing for now 50% will be adequate I would think.

As for the silicone, maybe worth emailing the manufacturer, just in case.

Putting some driftwood or other objects in the tank may help, and I'd also consider a thin layer of sand as I've found non painted tank floors can spook the fish even when they have some form of board attached to them - I have a tank that has polystyrene glued to the floor and when bare all the fish spook, add some sand and they stop and I've seen the same in other peoples tanks too - don't ask me to explain why as I can't

Got it Paul. I will put it back in the main tank when I get home. I will not euthanize unless I have to. It has been off food for well over 2 weeks which is why I am worried. I know other discus have gone more than 3 weeks, but the condition of this discus is worrying. For example, there are 2 others in this tank that ALSO haven't ate. I am not worried about them as much because they show no obvious signs of stress, other than the not eating. Their color is fine, and they only show that they are bottom rung in the pecking order. I will put some carbon in asap. I will also reduce the water change percentage again to see if that helps. So, 50% daily then?
I don't believe the silicone to be the issue here, but I will try contacting the manufacturer tomorrow.
I will try to get some PFS tomorrow at Lowes to see if that helps at all.
Thanks for all your advice.

Rick,

Just a thought if you haven't already. Retest your water out of your tap and watch it for that full minute and see if you see any changes and test it again after throwing in an air stone for 20 minutes. The DWP over on my side of the valley messed with my water about 2 years ago. I was able to use straight tap back then and ended up having to switch over to aging my water for 8 hours. The TDS also went from 264 to 334.

Mishka

Hey Mishka, I will do as you say tomorrow. So, with water conditions, we have to also monitor the TDS? I thought we only looked for pH? Either way, I can definitely check that tomorrow. I have a tds pen as well. Glad I didn't sell it (rather, glad it didn't sell because I did have it for sale, lol).

Thanks all!

[Len]

With regards to the silcone, one of them has a mold/mildew inhibitor in them, and one doesn't. They both say not for aquariums on the lable, but I did contact the manufacturer about two years ago and was told it's a legality. The same product (the one with no mold inhibitor) is also put in different packaging and sold for use in aquariums -- go figure.

[Kal-El]

Sorry to hear about the trouble you're having. In my experience I've had a lot of success using heat to treat sick fish who don't eat. If all that you have try failed try using heat treatment it works 90% of the time for me.

I use a heat controller to slowly increase the temp to 94 degree F in a two to three days. Once stable at 94 I keep this temp up to 10 days before slowly decreasing the temp back to normal. During this time light feeding with daily 50% WC age tap water that's temp control set to 94 degree.

More info can be found here.

Heat plus + Metro works awesome together to rid of internal parasites (Hexamita).

[yim11]

If we step back and look at this -

We see the fish before they were shipped, look great, healthy. Very nice fish.
We know you don't have any other fish at all (right?) so no way you could have cross contaminated.
We know the fish are in a bad condition now.

There is simply no way you could have gotten these fish sick, and they don't look sick at all before you got them. Based on that it really confuses me why anyone would recommend any meds at this point.

Pretty much the only logical conclusion is that something is wrong with your water or hardware, so if were me - and it's not - that is where I would focus my efforts.

Now, if I'm incorrect on you having any other fish currently then all the above can be ignored LOL.

You are getting a lot of advice from a lot of folks, but only one that is being flown to the US for a show

Good Luck

[OC Discus]

A couple more thoughts:

1) How about comparing the parameters of Josie's water with yours to see if there was a drastic change
2) You can quickly tape some white poster board to the sides and back to get closer to the original tank
3) If carbon has been recommended so many times, and with the cost of these fish, I can't imagine why you haven't already got it, even if you have to take the kids with you.
4) Using ambient room light only until the condition improves could reduce the stress
5) Don't give up. My six have weathered some severe storms together and all survived. Just try to move very slowly around the tank and avoid any loud noises or sudden movements that can startle them.
6) If you have small children, they could be stressing the fish. Try to keep them back several feet from the tank.

[OC Discus]

Also, a dog or cat could be a possible source of stress.

BTW, if the silicone was an issue, the carbon might help with that. Carbon has a short life span. I'm not sure how long, but I would use a large amount and change it weekly until the situation is resolved. Some of the mods might suggest the maximum amount to use and how often to replace it.

[rickztahone]

With regards to the silcone, one of them has a mold/mildew inhibitor in them, and one doesn't. They both say not for aquariums on the lable, but I did contact the manufacturer about two years ago and was told it's a legality. The same product (the one with no mold inhibitor) is also put in different packaging and sold for use in aquariums -- go figure.

So which was the one in question for you? The I or the II?

Sorry to hear about the trouble you're having. In my experience I've had a lot of success using heat to treat sick fish who don't eat. If all that you have try failed try using heat treatment it works 90% of the time for me.

I use a heat controller to slowly increase the temp to 94 degree F in a two to three days. Once stable at 94 I keep this temp up to 10 days before slowly decreasing the temp back to normal. During this time light feeding with daily 50% WC age tap water that's temp control set to 94 degree.

More info can be found here.

Heat plus + Metro works awesome together to rid of internal parasites (Hexamita).

I figured that 84 on its own would work to stimulate appetite, but I guess I can bump up the temp a little, it couldn't hurt.

If we step back and look at this -

We see the fish before they were shipped, look great, healthy. Very nice fish.
We know you don't have any other fish at all (right?) so no way you could have cross contaminated.
We know the fish are in a bad condition now.

There is simply no way you could have gotten these fish sick, and they don't look sick at all before you got them. Based on that it really confuses me why anyone would recommend any meds at this point.

Pretty much the only logical conclusion is that something is wrong with your water or hardware, so if were me - and it's not - that is where I would focus my efforts.

Now, if I'm incorrect on you having any other fish currently then all the above can be ignored LOL.

You are getting a lot of advice from a lot of folks, but only one that is being flown to the US for a show

Good Luck

No other fish what-so-ever. This particular tank was fully disinfected with bleach per our forum recommendations.
Too many chefs in the kitchen you say? It is fine, I can't possibly do every single thing that everyone is recommending, but the sensible things that wouldn't cause any harm (non-med related) can easily be implemented.

A couple more thoughts:

1) How about comparing the parameters of Josie's water with yours to see if there was a drastic change
2) You can quickly tape some white poster board to the sides and back to get closer to the original tank
3) If carbon has been recommended so many times, and with the cost of these fish, I can't imagine why you haven't already got it, even if you have to take the kids with you.
4) Using ambient room light only until the condition improves could reduce the stress
5) Don't give up. My six have weathered some severe storms together and all survived. Just try to move very slowly around the tank and avoid any loud noises or sudden movements that can startle them.
6) If you have small children, they could be stressing the fish. Try to keep them back several feet from the tank.

Also, a dog or cat could be a possible source of stress.

BTW, if the silicone was an issue, the carbon might help with that. Carbon has a short life span. I'm not sure how long, but I would use a large amount and change it weekly until the situation is resolved. Some of the mods might suggest the maximum amount to use and how often to replace it.

Josie's water is very similar to mine, I checked. I can try covering up the sides as well. However, this tank will not remain covered, and in the past, I have always tried getting the discus used to the environment I created since they will be living in it. But, it wouldn't hurt in the short term. Carbon is going in tomorrow morning. The light fixture is currently off and will stay off.
I have a 13month old son that can't walk, and a 7yr old that does, but she knows better than to scare the discus. She grew up in a house with discus since she was a baby and knows how to behave around them.

[Len]

So which was the one in question for you? The I or the II?


...

Sorry, I had to go digging for the tube. It's the type I that is fine. Like this:

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