HELP !!! DISCUS ARE DYING !!

[dhesse4361]

I am new to this site to post but have been coming for a while.
I am a newer discus owner and have had very healthy and active fish who love to eat.
4 days ago I found two of my discus mating. I have a cone shaped piece of driftwood and watched as they laid eggs and fertilized. I separated the tank to allow only the male and female to be in the area of the tank with the eggs.
I was happy knowing that discus only breed under the BEST conditions and I try hard to keep the parameter of the water perfect.
The day after the spawning.....1) the eggs were gone 2) the 3 Super melons in the tank laid on the floor of the tank, increased respirations and quit eating (One was the female who laid eggs) My blue diamond went dark. Did a 60% water change
Day 2 after spawn. Blue diamond worse, melons worse. Juv blue diamond now dark and won't eat. 50% water change and added aquarium salt treatment
Day 3 after spawn Melons upright and more active but won't eat. Diamonds are dark and wont eat. Now my oldest fish Turquoise has a 3cm x 1 cm whiteish patch on his side, turning dark and won't eat, I continued with a 70 % water change this morning and added salt.
I need help....all fish are not eating and hiding. I don't want to lose my guys !!!

DISEASE QUESTIONNAIRE:


Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
SEE ABOVE


2. Symptoms:
Turning dark, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, hiding, excessive slime, Rapid breathing, headstanding and tailstanding and lying on their side. One fish has 3cm x 1cm opaque spot on the side.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
Water changes and salt. I am afraid to try anything more without help / advice



Tank/Water

4. Tank size; 75 gallon
DISCUS FISH
Turquoise 1) 5" 1) 4" 1)3"
Melons 1) 5" 1) 4" 1) 3"
Blue diamond 1) 6" 1) 3"
Marlboro red 1) 3"
One rainbow shark
2 bushy nose pleco
10 Cardinal tetras


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often). 55% twice a week



6. How long has tank been running? 10 years with Gravel substrate 1/4 inch deep



7. Do you age your water? NO


8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp 85 ( I have increased the temp to 88-89 with the symptoms)

- ph 7.2

- ammonia reading 0

- nitrite reading 0

- nitrate reading 10

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use?

- well water only


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently. Cardinal tetras

Please help us !!
Dorothy

[Keith Perkins]

How long ago were the cardinals introduced to the tank? I'm not a medicating expert so I'll supply no advice, but my first guess would be the cardinals introduced something to the tank the discus had no immunity to. Knowing when the cardinals were introduced will likely assist the medication experts help you when they come along.

[pcsb23]

The first thing to do is to lower the temperature. 82 will be fine for now. Never raise the temperature when you don't know what you are dealing with, it speeds everything uo, including the rate at which pathogens proliferate and it also robs the water, and therefore the fish, of oxygen.

You don't mention how or if you dechlorinate your change water, I note it comes from a well, any chance it could have been contaminated at all?

Not wishing to burst bubbles but discus will spawn in all sorts of conditions.

Keith is probably correct in that the cardinals could have brought something in with them. Any chance of a picture of the discus with the opaque spot on it? Also have a look at the fish head on and see if you can see any dusting on it, also look at it side on and see if there is anything that resembles a web like pattern.

How much salt have you added?

[dhesse4361]

We have well water so no chlorine but I always ad AQUASAFE dechlorinator. I also use Blackwater extract and Stresscoat with water changes.
Regarding the opaque spot on the fish, it is gone, I see no web pattern to the fish side. It looks like there could be a dust like substance on the fish sides but only in the blue light. The female has died... brought her into the pet shop along with a water sample (just in case I missed something) Everything looks fine. The fish is beautiful (Minus the dead thing) looks healthy, well fed, bright eyes no marks or spots of any kind. VERY DISTRESSING !!! I will turn the temperature down and do another water change. Any other advice ??

[dhesse4361]

Ooops the salt.....1 tbsp for every ten gallons

[gundala]

Could it also b overstocked & not enuf WC?

[nc0gnet0]

Could it also b overstocked & not enuf WC?

no

[nc0gnet0]

Any other advice ??

Take a picture. I am curious, if you have well water, why are you using a dechlorinator and stress coat? When did you add the cardinals, and where do you live?

[Keith Perkins]

Take a picture.

You'll have to make 8 more random posts however to post a picture.

[dhesse4361]

I live in Minnesota.
I add the stress coat because it was suggested by some of the discus forums.
The tetras were added a couple weeks ago.
The tetras are fine. The pet store has heard of no issues with them.
I can send a picture to you. I apparently can not post one

[dhesse4361]

I have to make 7 more Radom posts

[dhesse4361]

Then I will be able to post a pic

[nc0gnet0]

take a few pictures, upload them to photobucket, then post the link.

[GeauxDiscus]

Just because the tetras are fine doesn't mean they didn't introduce something that the discus can't handle. Like Keith said, the tetras may be immune, but the discus can't handle it. My bet is a virus introduced by the tetras. I'd keep up with large daily water changes and listen to Paul.

[nc0gnet0]

Just not a lot of information to go on yet. I know it must be frustrating, but think if there are any clues to the puzzle you havent told us yet. Also, I need to re-iterate, pictures would be a big help.

For now stop with the blackwater and the stress coat. Your just throwing money away on that stuff anyways, neither are needed. I prefer prime over aquasafe, but is your well "your" well, or a public well?

Not a big fan of salt, other than a dip, I would stop with that as well, but, for the moment it shouldn't be hurting anything at least.

This is what I know so far from what I have gathered from your posts.

your discus have been happy and healthy. 10 days ago you added 10 cardinal tetras to your tank. for 6-7 days all was fine, your fish even spawned. Then right after the spawning, all the discus in the tank got sick, one even died. During this time the tetras were fine and unfazed.

The only visible symptoms are the fish have stopped eating, are breathing faster, and lethargic. There is no signs on the fish of anything amiss on the body or fins. The fish are not flashing (rubbing against objects) they are not at the surface gasping for air.

on the surface it appears to be a water issue, but the fact the cardinals are unaffected contradicts this.

No signs of fin rot, slime coat sloughing off, white spots on fins, decaying fins, etc, no flashing, seems to rule out (or at least drop it down on the list) external bacterial infections or parasites.

Incubation period seems to rule out your normal internal parasites. (hex, worms, tapes, etc).

This seems to point out, or at least place it at the top of the suspect list, an internal bacterial infection.

None of the tetras that you first got have died have they? I find this strange, IME you look at a cardinal tetra wrong and it dies on you.

I can't help but think we are missing a piece of the puzzle, go over in your head the events of the last 14 days and let us know if you have missed anything.

How long have you had all the discus in the tank. I see you have a few 3" fish, how long has it been since you added those to the tank?

For now all I can advise is to stay on top of water quality (water changes), try to get some pics, and look for any other signs that may help us.

-Rick