Fishless Cycle - 5 1/2 Weeks and Counting

[fishtanktenderfoot]

Greetings SD folks, I'm a long time listener, first time caller (so to speak)...

I have learned much from you already, but I could use some direction now (or maybe just encouragement.)

I am fairly new to it all and very excited at the prospect of Discus keeping!

So I have a new tank that is being cycled using ammonia kept at 4 ppm. What I am finding is that my tank gets ammonia and nitrite to zero within 24 hrs for a couple of days but then my ph steadily drops until it is below 6.0 and then the ammonia stalls. At that point, I will do a 60% water change which brings my ph back up to 7.6, and the whole thing repeats. Should I be doing something differently? Or do I just need patience?

Tank set up:
93G (48"L x 18"W x 25"H)
Thin layer PFS
Manzanita branch sand-blasted and boiled
Rocks that passed the acid test (3 drops of my API nitrate #2 bottle)
4 potted plants (low light high temp variations)
Current USA Satellite+ LED 48" light
Eheim 2075
Air pump with 2 stones
In-line heater

Water is 84F
I use aged heated aerated water run through a carbon filter. I have a chlorine tester on order so I am using a de-chlorinator for now to be safe. My ph is 7.0-7.2 out of the tap. My aged water is 7.6. Tank TDS is 153 if that matters.

Sorry so long. Thanks for reading! Please share any thoughts you might have on my cycling. I'm mostly bummed because I'm missing Kenny's August shipment, darn it!

Sam

[Keith Perkins]

Welcome Sam - I'd put a quick call into Kenny to see if he's got a spare cycled sponge filter he could sell you to ship along with your fish. I've never been patient enough for fishless cycles, so I've always gone that route.

[fishtanktenderfoot]

Even though your reply sent me to the kitchen for a brown paper sack to get my breathing back under control, thank you for the response, CozyKeith!

You are talking to a methodical engineer-type that researches and plans everything, and you are suggesting that I buy my 7 discus of 4.5" for several hundred dollars and put them in my un-cycled tank with some magic and everything will be alright? Yes, I see the merit of the suggestion, I am just trying to wrap my mind around it, LOL.

Am I just getting media from Kenny or the entire filter? Will that not introduce things into my tank that I potentially don't want? I know the fish will introduce some amount anyway, but I also know I don't want the water the fish travels in put in my tank, either. Although that's probably because of high levels of waste... And what if it doesn't work? Ok, that's unlikely and I understand that if the fish arrive alive, then the media is probably alive, too. But I will really be sweating that first week checking water parameters! I would probably stock up on all kinds of things like Amquel that I normally wouldn't give much mind to "just in case."

Thanks again for the idea - I will seriously consider it...!

[Keith Perkins]

Using established media is a widely accepted but oddly underused method for starting a new tank. It's not at all magic, you'd simply be introducing a sponge filter that's already gone through the cycling process at Kenny's in some form much like you're trying to do artificially at your place. A sponge filter from Kenny won't introduce anything to your tank that the fish at his place using it won't, so I don't really find any downside to method. You don't have to take my word for it, check with Kenny later today. I'm pretty sure he's done exactly the same before.

[judijetson]

I've ordered the seeded sponges from Kenny with each shipment.

Sent from my Galaxy Note 3

[fishtanktenderfoot]

Thanks for the info. I actually like the idea very much. I will email Kenny today! I was ok with the slow fishless cycle method initially because I needed the time to sort out my set up and routine anyway. But now I'm to the point "cycle already, would you!" Thanks!!

[kwan8911]

I would buy some aquarium bacteria product such as the tetra safe start or evolution aqua PURE to speed up the cycling process.

[pcsb23]

Dropping pH is normal. I'd suggest using less than 4ppm of ammonia too, 1 to 2 ppm is fine. Do a weekly water change too until whilst cycling. Once it is dealing with 1-2ppm in a few hours add a bit more ... it sounds as though the filter is close anyways ...

The likelihood is that the addition of 4ppm ammonia is stalling the process rather than the pH.

[fishtanktenderfoot]

Thanks everyone - I am cycling at 2 ppm now and I am waiting to hear back from Kenny. So I have a plan and a backup plan. AND I am now 4 posts on my way to be able to share pics with y'all in a couple of weeks. Yay!

[tiggert]

When I have had several tanks in operation, I'll keep a new sponge going thru a fresh cycle in a 5 gallon bucket. No need to use the whole tanks...Some bacteria in a bottle and a couple drops of ammonia per day and the sponge is ready to drop into work at anytime if I need to replace an old sponge (or start a new tank)

[Second Hand Pat]

Hi Sam and welcome to SD. Be prepared to do large daily WCs when the fish come as the BB grow to support the bio-load of your new fish. In other words your tank will most likely have a mini-cycle which is rather normal and generally lasts a week.
Pat

[Discus Origins]

With the advances in technology there are def products now that prevent any introduction of parasites or waiting weeks for a fish less cycle. These products on the market (some better than others) that only contain the bacteria that consumes ammonia and nitrites which you add to the tank when the fish are introduced. The system will be cycled or go through a mini cycle that ends in a few days instead of weeks

[fishtanktenderfoot]

I know this thread is a couple of weeks old, but I thought I would provide an update (and I'm still trying to get to 10 posts before my fish arrive.) It appears that my tank was basically already cycled - dropping to 2ppm ammonia did the trick! So today, it processes 2ppm in 12 hours, and when I add 4ppm, it shows zero ammonia and nitrites within 24 hrs. So thanks for that tip! (And I do plan to do 50% daily WC for a week or two in case there is a mini-cycle.)

I did order my fish from Kenny, too, and he's shipping them next week along with a seeded filter which it seems I may not need now. So, I had a thought that I would go ahead and set up my 20G quarantine tank with Kenny's seeded filter. I want a pair of blue rams and a dozen cardinals eventually, and I was going to wait a few months, but I thought it might be a good time to set them up since I have the filter? I will keep them in a separate tank for 3-4 weeks before I add a discus. If all goes well, when I add my rams and cardinals to the main tank in 6-8 weeks, I will move the seeded filter over, too, to help avoid yet another mini-cycle. So I think it has all worked out well. Thanks all for your input!

[pcsb23]

Glad to hear it, hope you enjoy your new fish

[MendoMan]

I went through a fish less cycle about one year ago. When the cycle was complete I continued to add ammonia (2ppm) as you are doing the day before Kennys fish arrived I did a 90% water change to lower the nitrates then added all my fish without a problem. Do what ever you feel is right but I wouldn't mess with the filters no need to use the filter Kenny is sending yours are ready.