Need help with this female

[100fuegos]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

This is a two year old brown female (just turned two last month). I have been noticing lots of slim coat for about a week in the tank, but as I had just removed the poret foam divider used to bred the blue pair and replaced it with egg crate to rise 16 fries I kept for myself and doing this the blue male, father (seeing the fry) immediately turned black again to protect the fry I always thought it was him, he has been pushing everyone but the mother of the fry away from the egg crate and beating everyone in the tank. Anyway, I just saw her four days ago with a popeye, right eye only.


2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).


1. Popeye, right eye only.
2. Lethargic, barely swims but other than this her colors and everything looks just fine. She may be partially blind at this point and may have not eaten nothing in a week or so. She is fat and strong, no problem with a week out of food.
3. Shedding lots of slim coat.

Fins are erect and she swims around when there is some light in the tote.


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

I read a lot when I saw her with popeye and everyone in here in the past suggested kanamycine wich I can not get in here (Spain). I did nothing the first day but the day after her eye was quite a lot bigger so I started a round of furan 2. Today is the third day.

1st day --> Furan 2 + around 30 grams of Epson salts + Metro at 500 Mg
2nd day --> Furan 2 + Metro
3rd day --> Furan 2 + metro

No improvements so far, not worst but no better either.

She is in a 50 liter trash can I use for my fishes only. Temp is set to 82.



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

300 liter tank, net. 8 two year old adults +, now, 16 juvies at 70 day old today.


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

More than a 100% every day, I even siphon at least once, many days three times, a day all the solids and remove around 20 % of tank water that I replenish. Cannot remember I skipped a wc, few hours later but never mist one.

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

Two year old tank and filters. Bare bottom. Keep my two canisters clean, I use two inline prefilters, besides the prefilters in the filters intakes, that I clean when the water flow slows down, once a month maximum. (sponge filters in the babys partition are not cicled)


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

No, I do not. I filter my water with a nine stage HMA type filter. My water change water is warm from a Solar heater.


8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.

I have not checked water param in 18 months or so. Quite confident it is not a water issue.


- temp _____ 82 usually but summers are really hot in here. In summer time it can get to 86 easily.

- ph _____ 8.2

- ammonia reading ____

- nitrite reading ____

- nitrate reading ____

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water 100%

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

Nothing has been brought home in two years except for some cherry shrims and gupies but those are in a different room and I do not mix tools from the two tanks


10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

This is the female today. Notice she is at the water surface but the tote is completely dark, as soon as light gets in she swims down.

[100fuegos]

This is the tank today. Notice the big brown male breathing hard, nothing to do with this, he has been like this since he was a year old but that is for another thread.

I did the WC this morning and for the sake of me I have not siphoned anything today

[100fuegos]

Any body? Any idea?

[pcsb23]

Sorry must have missed this previously.

Discus need light, they should have a day and a night so make sure the fish in the tote gets some daylight (8 hours min I'd suggest).

For the cost of an ammonia test kit I'd get one, at least it will rule out one variable.

The eye on the female looks as though it has been damaged, it looks as though you keep your tanks spotless. Normally when they do get damaged they get infected too, more of a secondary issue. I'd treat in a qt tank rather than the tote, it would be easier on you I think. If the only med you can get is furan then stick with it for now, at least another few days.

[100fuegos]

Hi, thanks for answer

Yes, she gets light, but when I am not around I put the cover and leave some space for the light to enter.

Today is the fourth day on Furan2 and no improvement have been noted. She swims around with no visible problem and has not lost the color. Have no spare tank at the moment so the tote may have to do for now.

Sorry, I had Furan2 at hand, but I can get anything that is sold in EU maybe not on time though. I ordered Kanamicyne online but it will take weeks before it gets here, if it ever clears customs. Anyway on Spanish forums people have been using CIPROFLOXACIN with great success in short baths of one hour or at a lesser dose in water for seven days.

Has anyone tried it or knows about it? I have at hand some Furamor-P and Sera Bactopur. If Furan2 finally proves inefficient what should I do next?

General feeling is she is handling it not too bad, she doesn't get any better but any worst either.

Thanks for your time.

[pcsb23]

Not used Ciprofloxacin, iirc it is used to treat anthrax ... I have previously used quinolone class antibiotics though (which is what cipro is). It is definitely worth a shot and I'd be interested in your results with it.

[nc0gnet0]

Is that an infection or just fluid/swelling behind the eye from being severely damaged? Hard to tell from the video. I have used furan-2 on eye damage before, albeit in more of a preventative nature.

You are sure this was brought about from abusive behavior from the male correct?

Good luck and keep us informed, IME eyes take a while to heal.

[yim11]

When I did birds a very long time ago, cipro was to birds what metro is to fish - commonly suggested and overused antibiotic lol . I would have no idea at all how to dose it for water/fish.

[100fuegos]

Thanks for taking all your time.

I cannot be sure as I did not see it happen. But the blue male has been a jerk ever since I replaced the poret foam divider with an egg crate one.

Another thing may be that upon removing the poret foam divider I took with it a big piece of the bio filter that formed on it in the almost two months and for a few days I had, without noticing it, a mini cicle. But as said before I had not mist a wc in this tank, daily 100%. She was and it is, fat and strong so I really doubt a few days with traces of ammonia would have put her in this situation.

What I am trying to say is that I have been thinking and thinking of what could have happened and I am not sure.

Anyway after just one course of ciprofloxacine treatment in a short bath of one hour at a concentration of 1 gram of active ingredient every 10 liters of water she is way better. The eye is still the same but she is not shedding slim coat anymore, during the bath she shed a ton was almost like if she was melting and this morning she is happily swimming around and much more active. She refused live red wigglers but not concerned with the lack of appetite for the moment.

Keep you all updated.

Thanks

[100fuegos]

Bought a tank for her today, could not choose, had to bring home what was available, they were kind enough to stick the vinyls to all three sides and bottom in no time. The sponge filter should be barely cycled as it's been around 40 days since I set it up in the big tank, should suffice for her alone with no feeding, or feeding live red wigglers. Temp as said before is set at 82. Please notice the wound on the eye on the video below.

Keep on doing baths of one hour with cipro at 1 gram per ten liters of water every 24 hour. General condition is not bad but the eye has an open wound today. Not sure if it is bad or good.

Please comment.

Really appreciate it, thank you all for your time.

[nc0gnet0]

Keep on doing baths of one hour with cipro at 1 gram per ten liters of water every 24 hour. General condition is not bad but the eye has an open wound today. Not sure if it is bad or good.

Please comment.

Fish is as least acting better, as for the eye looks like it might be a little bit worse, hard to tell first pics/vids were a bit dark. Your pretty much in uncharted territory with the Cipro bath's once a day, so it is hard to have much of the way in terms of commentary. Not saying it won't work, just don't know, never used the stuff. I might have been inclined to go with a furan-2 + kanamycin combo, but am very curious to see if this works.

[100fuegos]

Furan-2 + kanamycin was what I was looking for but it is impossible to find the second here. Ordered it online but it may not even clear customs. Furan2 by itself did nothing, finished a course and fish did not improve, at least in attitude, until started with the cipro.

Put a live red wiggler in the new tank with her but I do not really believe it will take it.

Fingers crossed

Thanks

[nc0gnet0]

Furan2 by itself did nothing,

These issues can take a good deal of time for recovery, if ever. I am not sure for the length of time you used the furan-2 you can conclusively say that, but I digress, I am watching your thread with great interest and I hope for a full recovery. It will be a learning experience for me.

[pcsb23]

I doubt you will be able to get kanamycin, for some reason it isn't approved in the EU if memory serves. Shame too, as it is still a very effective med. ime you need 7 to 10 days to assess how an antibiotic is performing, sometimes they get worse before they get better and sometimes, sadly, there is little we can do for them.

You are doing all you can for now so fingers crossed.

[100fuegos]

Changed the treatment for today as she was getting better with the 1 hour baths but getting worse after 10 - 12 hours. So lowered the drug concentration to 1.5 grams per 50 liters of water and increased the time she was exposed to the drug.

Eye wound was this morning covered by a whitish stuff and was expelling something. During treatment she shed quite a lot of something white, not quite slime coat but something with sand texture but with bigger grains. The stuff did not float, was at the bottom of the tote (treatment was done in the 50 liter tote)

After the treatment eye wound looks clean, completely clean and much more better than this morning. Eye is still the same if anything a little bigger compared to yesterday. She looks quite a lot more comfortable now than before the treatment, she is swimming around and it is not black (on the videos she looks black but is caused by the flash light of the camera, as soon as I turn off the camera and step back she recovers her normal brown color though is showing stress bars)

Not interested in food still. Put in a cube of FDBW but she could care less.