Adult wilds not exactly hiding, but inactive...would dither fish help.

[adapted]

They no longer venture out like this... (photo from about 8 weeks ago)

[YSS]

Wow! Those are some nice looking wilds. Hope you get your issues sorted out.

[Second Hand Pat]

They no longer venture out like this... (photo from about 8 weeks ago)

These guys are gorgeous. Hope you get them sorted out.

[adapted]

Thanks for nice words, but don't let the fish hear you... they're already as conceited as hell. (At least when they're feeling good.)

I just thought of one more variable: the sand substrate is no longer covering the whole bottom. (I lose a little every day siphoning.) I'm going to add enough back for 100% coverage and see if they notice or care.

Anyway, this is not a huge deal: The fish are eating and looking good, breathing slowly, fins up and all that. They're just very tentatative for about two weeks now. I'm going to change one thing at a time so I can possibly pinpoint the cause and avoid it in the future.

I've already taken the sump out of the loop; next will be breaking down the Eheim. If I can get this corrected I will have learned something and will gladly share it with the Forum.

[Mapet]

Do you have a microscope?

[adapted]

Do you have a microscope?

No but I could probably arrange to borrow one... what did you have in mind?

[pcsb23]

Their behaviour is not indicative of any illness or parasite, however there would be no harm in eliminating that possibility by using a scope.

I've had sumps running on the same hard piping for many years, with no cleaning of the pipes, with wild caught discus and altums on it, also with extremely soft water. Not once did I feel the sump caused any issues. We get too hung up about "clean" filters, we need to focus on clean water, both biologically and chemically. Sterile environments are counter productive ime/o - the only time and place for sterile is when treating sick fish.

As an aside and given that these are not wild caught fish, Stendker uses a sump based system and they never clean it or the sponges - ever! Food for thought.

The sand on the floor may help btw, it is a quick, easy and cheap fix

[YSS]

By the way, where did you get the fish?

[adapted]

By the way, where did you get the fish?

John at Freshwater TRopicals...

[YSS]

John at Freshwater TRopicals...

Do you feed color enhancers?

[adapted]

No: Red wigglers, frozen mysis shrimp, frozen bloodworms and Ocean Nutrition Prime Reef flake. Since the photo was taken I've fed Cobalt Discus flakes.

(I have a fairly good digital camera that manages to pull all the available light and maximize exposure without a flash. The camera sensor makes the images brighter than what I see with just my eyes.)

[tolga]

Hi I know you said it's not a water quality issue but my suggestion would be to check your supply water. The quality might have deteriorated in the last few weeks as we know this happens sometimes. You don't want any heavy metals in there. Also the TDS reading does not give us the complete picture. It does not distinguish between hardness causing substances such as bicarbonates that shows up on your KH reading and other essential minerals such as calcium, magnesium and potassium which does not affect your KH but perform an important role in creating some kind of a chemical balance in the aquarium which helps with the process of osmoregulation of the fish. If these minerals are not present in your water supply you could try to add them to you ageing barrel. There are products that raise the GH without raising the KH. I'm only bringing this up because of my own experience with wild heckels. The water change issue is related to this question of chemical balance in my opinion. You say your water in the barrel stabilises at 6.5ph and the water in the tank is 5.8 to 6ph. Most discus would have absolutely no problems in adopting to such small swings but my heckels are different in that they show signs of stress when there are minor swings like that and then they get back to their usual playful selves when the water stabilises. In my two year experience with wild heckels (which might not be relevant to all wild discus), when ever they appear withdrawn, it is almost always caused by water chemistry issues. Surface cover definitely helps and in a big way but water chemistry and stability is the thing to watch out. When it's all okay, they may even adapt to your existing lighting. Also I agree with the previous point about the filter cleaning. If you have pre-filters I would just clean those regularly and leave the main biological filters undisturbed. The filters should not have required major cleaning after four months especially when you've got a purigen reactor. But any how as I've said I'm not an expert and I'm just throwing some ideas to help if I can. Good luck

[nc0gnet0]

Personally I would look for external agents that are not in the tank but might be causing the fish some sense of insecurity. Something more like external vibrations, noise, different lighting from a window, etc etc.

It could also be that a one time occurrence spooked your fish quite a bit, and they have not yet fully recovered and are still a bit on edge.

ps. I didn't think these were heckles?

[tolga]

"... In my two year experience with wild heckels (which might not be relevant to all wild discus)..."

[adapted]

Well, I'm not ruling out anything. Before 10 days ago, they had never freaked out and dashed around the tank wildly. Now they have done it maybe 5 times in the last week.

The trigger each time has been an unexpected movement, like a pillow or shirt dropping to the floor, or just walking by the tank with a gallon milk jug. It as if for some reason they have determined that I'm a threat. They don't worry about me siphoning the tank... it's been each time motion outside the tank. This didn't bother them at all before, now they are regularly panicked by it. Odd. They're acting like there's a peacock bass at the edge of their space about to swallow them all.