Ugh he's dying

[Mgardner]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
About a week ago he stopped eating. Was still swimming and schooling but started to darken some. Today he started laying in plants now he's laying on the sand. Some minor shreds noted on fins, today only.

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
Head standing, hiding, eyes seem lighter but not cloudy, darker.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
Nothing just water changes this week.


Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
90 gallon running about 6 months. Upgraded with fish, plants and sand and filters from old tank.8 4-6" discus, 1 is a few years lid, the rest from Kenny over the last year or so. 3 Cory's, 1 BN Pleco! and 3 high fin red tetras.

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).75% 3x per week. Occasional 30% interspersed.


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
6 mo but all internals and components brought over from 60 gal. Sand bottom less than 1".

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
Yes, but it's been a long time since I've measured and I always give >20 hours agitated and heated.


8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp _82-83____

- ph __6.8___

- ammonia reading __0__

- nitrite reading __0__

- nitrate reading _5-10___

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water _100%___

- municipal water ____

- RO water ____


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
Nothing added within the last few months. Did have some issues 4-5 mo ago when I added some rams from a LFS after QT but they all died and took 2 discus with them despite tx with metro (assumed hex due to white cloudy feces like shedding stomach lining, read here and treated). No issues since and didn't note any of those sx's here.


10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[Mgardner]

image.jpgimage.jpgimage.jpg

My iPad takes crappy photos. No scratches. Seems to be breathing heavily but not excessively.

[Mgardner]

He died last night. No lesions, scratches, nothing. He was almost bleached white which I've never seen before.

Any suggestions on what to do? Do I treat the tank?

Was this him dying in a natural death cycle?

Thanks,
Megan

[nc0gnet0]

What was the approximated age of the fish and how many times in the past has the fish been treated with medication? It appears your fish might have (this is a guess) suffered some kind of internal organ failure. This can sometimes be genetic, bad luck, or the delayed result of having been through several treatments with anti-biotics and/or anti-parasitics. Usually it is a combination of the above.

While I cannot say for sure this is what happened, it does present itself as a classic case of such. This is why myself and others cringe when we are faced with certain hobbyist that want to habitually treat their fish every other week for this ailment or that (not intended for you mgardner).

[Mgardner]

I treated one course (3treatments) like 3 months ago prior to adding in the last. Everyone was fine after except for the ones that died. I was doing 60-70% water changes without any improvements so I read and researched through the forum.
Trust me, I don't like to treat
Not sure of the age, I got him from Kenny in the spring as a 5" alenquer cross. He didn't eat well right away but appeared to acclimate.

The decline was quick. Eating slowed last weekend and stopped mon and Tuesday. But yesterday was the drooping into plants/hanging on the bottom in obvious distress.

[Mgardner]

So two months later, I'm seeing another slow failure. This fish predates the other's death, was healthy, eating, trying to lay eggs up the vertical wall of the tank (truly probably not a bright fish) at the beginning of the week. All the other info is the same as the OP.
Water parameters are fine, no nitrites or ammonia, nitrates are <10. Temp stays around 83.

Now I have a 5.5" red eagle that is swimming listlessly, not eating for more than a few days, kind of washed out. No marks, no wounds, no white spots/blemishes.
I did see some mucos-y poop a few days ago, but no other issues. (My Pleco disappeared from the tank... Otherwise no other issues.

No treatment, just 1/3 - 2/3 water changes 3-4x per week. I don't see any changes with clean water. Suggestions?

Thanks again,
Meg

[pcsb23]

Do you have a qt tank?

[Mgardner]

Yes. I do, but since I can see absolutely nothing wrong, I hadn't qt'd him. I stare at him obsessively and aside from being a little washed out, I see nothing. No scratches, white spots, issues with his gills, he's not flashing, darting, head standing, just chilling by my heater and maybe swimming a little here and there. And not eating at all.

[pcsb23]

Not getting bullied or pushed out, particularly at feeding time?
Any chance of getting a look at it's gills? They should be nice and red or dark pink in colour ...
no issues with the clarity of it's eyes at all?
any specs in the eyes?

Sorry for all the q's

[Mgardner]

Absolutely nothing. No wounds, no changes to breathing. Gills are difficult to see but appear normal. She's not clamped or anything, nothing on fins...

All the fish were healthy eaters and I was feeding live black worms which spread out and didn't lead to bullying at feeding time. Even with FDBlkWs, no bullying. She just doesn't seem interested in eating.

Nothing wrong with the eyes either. Clear and no spots. She has a dark spot (since I've had the fish) in line with where a stress bar would be if she had them.

I am seriously flummoxed. Every other fish in the tank is fine, swimming fine, eating voraciously, dark normal poops, normal activity.

[pcsb23]

Flummoxed is a great word here, as I am too. I may be tempted to get it to a fish path lab and see what they can find.

[Disgirl]

Many people believe that live blackworms are dangerous to feed and eventually make discus ill. I have no experience with them since I don't use them, however I have heard this for many years. Just a thought.
Barb

[Mgardner]

Thanks. I stopped feeding the live worms. Doing a few extra water changes, feeding fdblkw, flakes, and some frozen brine shrimp on every third day.

I'll just keep an eye on her.

[Mgardner]

So I've noticed white cloudy, mucus-y poop from this fish in the last 2days. Today after a water change, I see this. It isn't worms, it looks tissue-like in texture. I tried to net the fish to see if I could examine it closer... No luck. Most activity I've seen from her in over a week.

Still not eating, still lazing around, not schooling. No other weird behaviors...

Thanks,
Megan

[pcsb23]

That is fairly typical of spiro, metro would be the drug of choice here if it is (a scope would allow you to confirm). I would do a 7 to 10 day treatment and also add Epsom salts @ 1 tablespoon per 10 US gallons replacing any that is removed with water changes. Ideally treat in qt, but as you have had ongoing issues in this tank it may be worth a shot treating the main tank. Don't raise temps and only dose once a day with the metro, 250mg to 400mg per 10 US gallons - I tend to aim for 400mg/10USG.