A Warning About De-Los from National Fish Pharmaceuticals

[Carolina discus]

Oh yeah....if you can find Andrew Sohs books I would recommend you get them...there is some excellet USABLE information on diseases and treatments....again, well worth the money in the long run

[brewmaster15]

HI,
Really sorry to hear of your fish losses here Shane.

Some general info for you on capillaria. If you are battling this nematode... Levamisole should work....but a med that will is Fendendazole(Panacur). You can find it in a flake format or you can make your own food with it...Its added to the food...NEVER to the water.

Theres some miss-conceptions here on capillaria I need to clear up..

If you have capillaria worms... they infect fish by being ingested as eggs in most cases, but these eggs are shed into the water, and can take weeks to actually develop to the point that they can infect the fish, so in many cases, wiping the tanks well, lots of water changes and removing organic matter will go a long ways to preventing infection once you have dealt with the adults in the fish.

I am not sure that you are seeing Capillaria. Theres an article here..
http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/...ematodes.shtml

that you should read...most people do not see capillaria worms... they may see the barrel shaped eggs.

Identifying worms is actually not as easy as many might think.. Unless you have a really good understanding of parasitology, its very hard. I know my way around a microscope well and I feel confident that I may be able to identify "worms" in general, maybe, so not trying to convince you otherwise.

Really the best course of action if you are dealing with something elusive and chronic, is to get a fish to lab for a positive ID...

Hth,
al

[GeauxDiscus]

Shane
I can understand your disapointment...your loss is something we all have gone through or will go through on the "discus journey" we had an accident with a malfunctioning valve that we lost over 1000 fish we were growing out...I was devistated not at the money but rather the time that it took to get to where we were going.
I would focus on if there could have been a reaction between the 2 meds you were interchanging (levamisole and delos)...I understand you were doing water changes, charcoal, etc but that could have been the issue....again from our own experience and learning curve, many years ago we used PP after formlin treatments....did the usual WC's/charcoal etc to remove anything.......did the treatment and lost the tank...after going over the process to see where my mistakes were and talking with a few people I trust I believe there could have been a residue on the glass as I didnt wipe down the tanks with each water change...may not seem like a big deal but you have to be that careful when mixing meds...
Again, we all feel your pain as we have all made mistakes with discus...if someone tells you they have never had any issues or made mistakes they are full of s**t ...these fish can make you each more than your fair share of "humble pie"...when you settle down I would recommend calling NFP and going over your experience with them and see where something may have gone wrong...you will be a better discus keeper and enjoy them more in the long run...
best of luck!

I really appreciate your input, Eric. The only real possibility I can think of at this point is your suggestion of a reaction between the levamisole residue and the De-Los. I'm amazed that small of an amount of left-over levamisole could have that big of a negative impact on the fish, but I can't think of anything else it would be. Again, I appreciate all the support and feedback. As an update, the bleeding seems to have stopped at three fish lost - one 6.5 inch Marlboro Red from Hans, one 6 inch Penang Eruption Leopard, and a 5.25 inch yellow.

[GeauxDiscus]

HI,
Really sorry to hear of your fish losses here Shane.

Some general info for you on capillaria. If you are battling this nematode... Levamisole should work....but a med that will is Fendendazole(Panacur). You can find it in a flake format or you can make your own food with it...Its added to the food...NEVER to the water.

Theres some miss-conceptions here on capillaria I need to clear up..

If you have capillaria worms... they infect fish by being ingested as eggs in most cases, but these eggs are shed into the water, and can take weeks to actually develop to the point that they can infect the fish, so in many cases, wiping the tanks well, lots of water changes and removing organic matter will go a long ways to preventing infection once you have dealt with the adults in the fish.

I am not sure that you are seeing Capillaria. Theres an article here..
http://www.simplydiscus.com/library/...ematodes.shtml

that you should read...most people do not see capillaria worms... they may see the barrel shaped eggs.

Identifying worms is actually not as easy as many might think.. Unless you have a really good understanding of parasitology, its very hard. I know my way around a microscope well and I feel confident that I may be able to identify "worms" in general, maybe, so not trying to convince you otherwise.

Really the best course of action if you are dealing with something elusive and chronic, is to get a fish to lab for a positive ID...

Hth,
al

Thanks very much for the input, Al. I've actually put a decent bit of effort into finding a place where I could take a fish to have it tested around here, but I've so far been unsuccessful. I'd be willing to sacrifice my runt if it meant confirming a diagnosis, but I don't know where to take/ship it. Any suggestions on how to go about it?

[brewmaster15]

Absolutely... Florida Cooperative Extension...university of Florida...

http://tal.ifas.ufl.edu/


Diagnostic lab ...
http://tal.ifas.ufl.edu/diagnostic_lab.htm

hth,
al


They don't take fish from Hobbyists anymore but can guide you.

[GeauxDiscus]

Absolutely... Florida Cooperative Extension...university of Florida...

http://tal.ifas.ufl.edu/


Diagnostic lab ...
http://tal.ifas.ufl.edu/diagnostic_lab.htm

hth,
al


They don't take fish from Hobbyists anymore but can guide you.

Thanks very much, Al. I'll give them a try.

[aovifo]

If it's Capillaria, which I'm not sure, the most effective treatment, against eggs too, is Flubendazole (Flubenole). It's not sold in USA but you can buy it via internet from UK. Google "Kusuri" from UK, one of their fish med products is based on Flubendazole. It's toxic and may have bad side effects on fish. But a lot of people use it with success.
Here is very serius person who says that Praziquantel is effective against Capillaria. As I know it isn't so. I would apreciate if anybody will share knowledge or experience on tha point.
http://www.skepticalaquarist.com/capillaria

[smsimcik]

Shane,
You may want to consider the diagnostic lab at TAMU vet school. tvmdlweb.tamu.edu. 888-646-5623, 979 845 3414. They're closer.

[GeauxDiscus]

Thanks, Steve! I'll give them a call to see if they're interested in helping.

Aovifo - My understanding is that prazi will NOT kill capillaria.

[brewmaster15]

Thanks, Steve! I'll give them a call to see if they're interested in helping.

Aovifo - My understanding is that prazi will NOT kill capillaria.

I have read that prazi may have an effect ion Capillaria... another one that is reported to be effective on capillaria is piperazine.

hth, al

[100fuegos]

Two years ago I cleared my fish from capillaria, positively identified by the eggs under a scope, using wormer plus from kusuri. So I can confirm it works.

[GeauxDiscus]

Two years ago I cleared my fish from capillaria, positively identified by the eggs under a scope, using wormer plus from kusuri. So I can confirm it works.

Good to know - thank you.