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Thread: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

  1. #31
    Registered Member nc0gnet0's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

    some have used battery Jumper cables.If you do, keep the cable as short as possible
    Cutting them in half and doubling them up effectively doubles the cable gauge...........
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  2. #32
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    Default Re: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by nc0gnet0 View Post
    Cutting them in half and doubling them up effectively doubles the cable gauge...........
    True, but they need to be exactly the same length if you do. For some reason most of the places I read online seemed to frown on using smaller cables together like that..I don't know exactly why. It seems to me, it should work fine if the cables are the same length . The only place where it may get tricky is that ANL fuse on the Positive... would you use 2 smaller amp ones ?

    I do know that some of the "larger " inverters recquire 2 power and 2 ground of smaller gauge. They do this as they "cheat" to make the inverter bigger. For instance they may be marketed as a 4000 watt inverter.. but in reality they are 2 each 2000 watt inverters in the same unit...so need a positive and ground for each.
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  3. #33
    Registered Member nc0gnet0's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

    For some reason most of the places I read online seemed to frown on using smaller cables together like that..I don't know exactly why.
    Because if the two cables become disassociated, then you have only one cable connected, and that may not be capable of handling the load. However, if both cables are capable, this no longer becomes an issue. Yes the cables should be exactly the same length, and connected in such a way that one will not "slip" out. Ideally you would use lugs and solder, and you could even have multiple coupling points along the length of the two cables.

    You do need to make sure the two cables are the same, which in the case of the long jumper cables, should not be an issue.

    Ideally one larger cable is better (if it gets disconnected you have an open circuit and no hazard), but we are talking about sourcing materials for the project with what we may have available to us

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  4. #34
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

    So Probably best if you use "re-purposed" jumper cables to solder the terminals of the two pieces together and crimp to the terminal lug, and also do that again on the positive cable where the ANL Fuse is placed in line. Its a tad more work but soldering and crimpings is not hard. Worth it if you have access to old jumpers cables.
    Last edited by brewmaster15; 12-04-2014 at 09:41 AM.
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  5. #35
    Registered Member nc0gnet0's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

    So Probably best if you use re-purpose jumper cables to solder the terminals of the two pieces together and crimp to the terminal lug, and also do that again on the positive cable where the ANL Fuse is placed in line.
    Absolutely and the only way I would do it. Last I checked copper was at like $3.00 a pound scrap, so new cable ain't cheap if you have some laying around.
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  6. #36
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

    Just to clarify for those unfamilar with this... we talking about using jumper cables normally used to start a dead battery in a car. You can cut the clamps off , separate the ground from the positive and then cut each of those wire in half... giving you 2 pcs ground, 2 pcs positive... Then you solder the ends together to double the gauge of the wire..This is done before connecting to the battery, inverter and fuse ...

    Looks something like this...

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  7. #37
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

    Just came across another thread at Simply thats related... Kris has a thread discussing using a UPS system for emergency power... pros and cons etc.

    http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...e-Power-Supply

    If this thread interests you, have a read there.

    -al
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  8. #38
    Registered Member 100fuegos's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by nc0gnet0 View Post
    Now, with a good 20 amp DPDT relay we can get this puppy to turn on when power goes out automatically........

    Nice write up Al!

    -Rick
    The solution for this is a fully automatic AC / DC inverter and UPS. Search eBay "doxin".

    It is coincidence I see this posted as it will be two weeks in two days since I built something similar for my small installation.

    KISS method, 105 amp deep cycle cheap battery + Doxin brand fully automatic AC / DC inverter and UPS with a 20 amp smart charger. It does everything I need and it does it by itself.

  9. #39
    Registered Member nc0gnet0's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

    I can get a good 30 amp DPDT 120 volt coil relay for 30 bucks, not sure why I would need a UPS. It is the same relay some use for switching to solar backup on power failure. While I am sure your solution may work, I see no advantages and only added expense.
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  10. #40
    Registered Member 100fuegos's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

    That is a good point t Rick, but if I had to buy the inverter, the smart charger and the relay then it would be cheaper to buy this UPS

  11. #41
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    Default Re: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by 100fuegos View Post
    That is a good point t Rick, but if I had to buy the inverter, the smart charger and the relay then it would be cheaper to buy this UPS
    How much did your system cost to build? Also what kind of output does the inverter put out?

    I do like the idea of an automatic backup system for power outages with fishtanks...sensible idea and easy to accomplish.

    One note on the system as I have outlined here ...its scaleable with ease... if I add a fishtank or two to my collection(something not unheard of with hobbyists!!!!) I can swap out my 1100 watt/2200 watt surge inverter for a bigger 2000/4000 watt. The process takes 2 mins and entails loosening and removing 2 nuts on the battery ,removing cables and inverter, and replacing with new larger one.

    Another upgrade Easy to make is battery related..I can easy change a battery bank as well if needed.

    This kind of scaleability means I can make a system not just big enough for my present tanks..but for more future ones and even electronics in my home.

    Last note,in my area we have pretty stable power...we lose it during storms.Something I know are coming. Ive never not been home when we lost power...probably just jinxed myself!
    Ricks given me some specs and info on a relay so I think I may give it a try and see how it works with an inverter battery system like mine. The relay is not expensive at all..under $30.

    Al
    Last edited by brewmaster15; 12-05-2014 at 07:56 AM.
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  12. #42
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    Default Re: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

    Blimey, that's a lot of complicated detail to work out for what is a relatively simple thing in principle! Thanks for posting about it. It's an annoyance there aren't off-the-shelf systems available as such...

    I was trying to get my Mechanical and Electrical Engineer to build something like this for one of my projects for top-off surges to not blow the fuse until the power supply is upgraded, but he said it would cost tens of thousands and the size of the equipment would take up an entire large room. (Not that I've had much confidence in him overall though).

    I couldn't quite off the top of my head gauge the performance it provides however. How long do you think a marine battery like that would fully power your average say 200 gallon discus tank, if you didn't have a solar panel and just had a mains powered trickle charger. (I'd prefer a solar panel but am not going to rewire my house to achieve that.)

    Of course you'd just need to run your critical systems such as circulation and heating through this, as heating and circulation but not lighting. Or in worst case, the wife's fridge-freezer as well. ; P

    I'd need to build another one as well for a 60 gallon reef tank, which can crash within hours if the power goes out.
    Last edited by Tres; 12-06-2014 at 09:04 AM.

  13. #43
    Registered Member 100fuegos's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by brewmaster15 View Post
    How much did your system cost to build? Also what kind of output does the inverter put out?
    It was around 115 € plus another 116.50 for the 105 Amp deep cycle battery and that is it. The Inverter/UPS/Battery Charger is rated at 1500W but it is 90 % efficient so it will be able to sustain a load of 1350 watts or so. Actually there is a video of it on YouTube running a fan heater at 1300 watts, more than I will ever need.

    It will have to deal with 625 watts only from two heaters, two canisters and air compressor. It will be pretty easy to connect a second battery in parallel in case I ever need it.

  14. #44
    Registered Member nc0gnet0's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by 100fuegos View Post
    The solution for this is a fully automatic AC / DC inverter and UPS. Search eBay "doxin".

    It is coincidence I see this posted as it will be two weeks in two days since I built something similar for my small installation.

    KISS method, 105 amp deep cycle cheap battery + Doxin brand fully automatic AC / DC inverter and UPS with a 20 amp smart charger. It does everything I need and it does it by itself.
    I am a little confused here. The Doxin is just one type of inverter:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-UPS-250...item33987394d8

    What do you mean by "and UPS" are you sure your using the terminology correctly? What UPS?
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  15. #45
    Registered Member 100fuegos's Avatar
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    Default Re: An Alternative to a Generator..The inverter

    Quote Originally Posted by nc0gnet0 View Post
    I am a little confused here. The Doxin is just one type of inverter:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Auto-UPS-250...item33987394d8

    What do you mean by "and UPS" are you sure your using the terminology correctly? What UPS?
    lol Rick sometimes you can be a pain (joke)

    Yes I am using the right terminology, after all a UPS is an automatic AC / DC inverter and battery charger. This thing will charge your battery (20 Amp charger), keep it charged (smart charger) and upon a power failure will automatically kick in providing AC power to your stuff. So yes, it is a UPS (uninterruptible power supply).

    If you are in the market for an inverter, smart charger and a relay to make the thing kick in automatically upon a power outage then this is a viable option. One thing to note is that I have not seen it rated at 110 - 120 VAC so it will keep you guys in America out of option.

    I bought it here Be aware that prices will vary a lot, almost twice, depending whre you buy it.

    And now to make you a believer Rick please see this very bad video (sorry for the lack of quality and reflections)


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