Bloat

[Bill63SG]

Ive always done the Epson salt route,1 tblsn per 10gals.Usally get results in 24-48 hrs.Longest for me was 5 days,and after fish was fine.Ive got a large Turk that's going on a week,been doing 90% wc's everyday and re-adding salt,and Im getting a little cr@p every day,but it is still bloated.also have not been feeding it.Any other suggestions or stay the course?

[Kal-El]

Bill, could it be internal bacterial infection? Normally bloat shouldn't take more than 24-48 hours to clear.

[nc0gnet0]

Bill, could it be internal bacterial infection? Normally bloat shouldn't take more than 24-48 hours to clear.

+1 Pics?

[Bill63SG]

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[Bill63SG]

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[nc0gnet0]

You have seen this fish pass feces?

[Bill63SG]

Yes,not a lot,grayish and brown.looks somewhat if it had eaten dried blackworms or bloodworms and thier casings are in there.It is 7'" fish,so about the equivilant of the head of a cuetip at a time.IIt is in a 20gal by itself.Passing a little poop right now after its water change,but very little.

[nc0gnet0]

Sounds like it might be an internal bacterial infection, but the infection is not in the digestive tract.....curious to see what either AL or Paul might say, but I might be inclined to treat as such........Kanamycin.

[Bill63SG]

Thanks Rick.

[pcsb23]

From what I can see of the swelling it is not typical of bloat. Looks to be in the abdominal cavity, prognosis is iffy (sorry). Any decent gram neg antibiotic should work, so kanamycin, oxy-tet, baytril etc. I'd avoid beefheart type foods for now if it is eating, go for brine shrimp and maybe frozen blood worms and freeze dried should be fine too (black or blood).

[dkeef]

I have a tank where angels died from this disease with similar symptoms. Swelling of abdomen and I tried furan 2 and fed metro but didn't do anything. Def feel like it was a nasty angel fish bacterial infection since none of my other fish were affected. I flushed down the new carrier angels also so don't have any more angels.
I want to now clean this tank up for altums I'm getting in future. There are still rainbows rams and roselines in there.
What's the best way?
Pp?

[Bill63SG]

Thanks Paul,Ive been avoiding food,but I have both blood and black,so Ill give some today.Part of keeping discus is having some die.Ill keep with the treatment as long as it dosent appear to be suffering.

[nc0gnet0]

I have a tank where angels died from this disease with similar symptoms. Swelling of abdomen and I tried furan 2 and fed metro but didn't do anything. Def feel like it was a nasty angel fish bacterial infection since none of my other fish were affected. I flushed down the new carrier angels also so don't have any more angels.
I want to now clean this tank up for altums I'm getting in future. There are still rainbows rams and roselines in there.
What's the best way?
Pp?

Furan 2 while an excellent external anti biotic, has never seen to do much (at least for me) with internal infections. Oxytetracycline can be effective, but does not work well in waters with higher ph (it binds with calcium).

http://edis.ifas.ufl.edu/fa084

"Oxytetracycline and related antibiotics are considered broad-spectrum antibiotics (effective against a wide variety of bacteria), and they work well when mixed with food. However, bath treatments may not be as effective for all species. One study (Nusbaum and Shotts, 1981) demonstrated that channel catfish absorbed approximately 15-17% of the oxytetracycline added to water with hardness of 20 mg/L and pH of 6.7. However, at least two freshwater fish species (yellow perch and hybrid tilapia) did not have the expected levels of this antibiotic in their blood when exposed experimentally to oxytetracycline as a bath treatment for up to 8 hours (K. Hughes, unpublished data; S.A. Smith, Virginia Tech, pers. comm. 2002; and R.P.E. Yanong, University of Florida, unpublished data). In addition, calcium and magnesium bind to tetracycline and oxytetracycline rendering them inactive. This means that with increasing water hardness (i.e., increases in calcium and magnesium levels), it is necessary to increase the dosages of these drugs in bath treatments. Tetracyclines are ineffective when used as a bath treatment for saltwater fish.

Tetracyclines are light sensitive, and they turn brown when decomposing. This contributes to poor water quality and may be harmful to the fish. Water should be changed immediately after the bath treatment period is concluded. Due to years of misuse, several bacteria in many different facilities are now resistant to tetracyclines. Oxytetracycline still works adequately against most cases of Flavobacterium columnare (columnaris disease)."

[pcsb23]

Generally for those treating with oxy-tet it helps to know the hardness/alkalinity as Rick states it can get bound with calcium (one reason why it isn't used in marine tanks), in harder waters an increase in the dosage is reasonable. As to how much to increase it, well that is always a judgement call. It is however a very effective water borne antibiotic, it can be less so orally administered in some fish (carp mainly).

[pcsb23]

Thanks Paul,Ive been avoiding food,but I have both blood and black,so Ill give some today.Part of keeping discus is having some die.Ill keep with the treatment as long as it dosent appear to be suffering.

It's a case of feeding a little and removing any un-eaten food, even if it only takes a little it will help it.