Wild green discus sick

[Naturlabio]

Problem

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?

One of my wild green tefe don´t feed 15-20 days ago, the others fish have a good nutrition although they are a little apathetic. I had a high nitrates level a few days before (15 mg/l)

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).

The fish don´t eat and move her fins very fast although this symptoms is similar in all fish. His faeces are long and white


3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.

I haven´t tryed any treatments, only I have gone down nitrate levels with several waters changes



Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.

one tank of 158 gal. with 3 wild green diskus and 1 semirroyal with 17 cm. His tankmates are 20 Ottocinclus vittatus and 15 Corys pygmaeus


5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).

I usually change 15 gal everyday but when nitrates went up, I changed 80% every 4 days


6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?

The tank has been running 1 year and 6 months and have a silica sand of 5-6 cm deep


7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.

No

8. Parameters and water source;

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp: 82,4ºF

- ph: 6,05 with ph-controller

- ammonia reading: 0

- nitrite reading: 0 mg/l

- nitrate reading: now is 5 mg/l

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.

- well water ____

- municipal water ____

- RO water: 100% OR water but ph is stable because my kh is 2


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.

Nothing

10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.



www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtOXhDY5INw
www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg7AUeNoPCY

Thanks

[OC Discus]

Welcome to SD. I see you've been waiting most of the day for replies. So sorry your beautiful fish are not well.

I assume that some of the more knowledgeable members have not replied because it is a planted tank. Many diseases are hard to impossible to treat and eradicate in a planted tank. I am not a biologist, but can make a few observations:

1) The rocks in the tank look like they came out of a salt water tank. That looks like possibly cyanobacteria on the rocks. Something growing on or emitting from the rocks could be making the fish sick. Removing the rocks would be a first step.

2) Discus are easily startled and intimidated, even by smaller fish. In my opinion you have too many non-discus in the tank with them. Discus sleep at night, often resting on the bottom. All those bottom feeders moving around at night could be stressing the discus.

3) Water changes. People often think they can do less water changes in a planted tank because the plants consume the waste. The reality is that planted tanks require as much or more water change as bare bottom. Plants and substrate help create a climate where harmful bacteria and parasites can multiply, especially with small infrequent water changes.

4) White feces is a sign that something is not right, but does not always call for medication. You have not said what you are feeding. A change of diet may be in order. A variety of foods including high protein, vegetation, and vitamin enrichment is best.

5) Most on SD do not recommend using pure RO water. What is the purpose of that? You are missing certain minerals and trace elements using 100% RO water. Most use tap water unless breeding. Aged if they have a big ph swing.

I started with a gravel bottom mixed species tank. After fighting disease for weeks, I removed the substrate and non-discus fish. No sickness issues since. If you do remove the substrate, do it carefully.

My opinion. May not be everyone's opinion. Those green discus are nice. I would rehome all of the non-discus, put the discus in a 5 gallon bucket of tank water, drain the tank and remove the substrate. Refill with warm dechlorinated tap water and put the discus back in. Now you have room for a new group of discus. You could also downsize to a smaller tank. Again, this is one opinion. I believe the discus would be more healthy and easier to keep healthy. Others who successfully keep planted tanks might want to add other options.

Best Wishes

[OC Discus]

I would also do a complete tank wipe down at least weekly before a large water change.

[pcsb23]

I'm not sure the first respondents initial commentary is either needed or warranted. I' also appreciate it if he didn't speak for "most on SD" - I'm quite certain that "most on SD" can speak for themselves

However I do agree about the rocks, I'd remove them. I disagree about the substrate, these are wild caught fish, they are used to and will feel better with a sand substrate. The tank is hardly densely planted so it's a moot call as to whether you wish to remove the plants or not. For what it is worth, discus do not come from a particularly planted area, more roots and stuff.

As for the tankmates, I'm less concerned. Otos are generally ok, though I do see some people saying they have seen them attached to discus, in my own experience I've not seen this, they are one of the few "cats" I'd keep with discus, the other I'd keep is corys and I have no concern over these either.

Some treatments are undoubtedly less successful in planted or decorated tanks, simply because the additional biological matter can also be a target for the meds. However I'm not sure that treatment is needed just yet.

Having only four discus could be where some of the stress is coming from, it is probably my least favourite number of discus. I'd certainly be exploring the possibilities of adding one or two more (wild of course ).

We do need to work out your water though. If you are using pure RO you should have a kH of 0. As you say you have a kH of 2 it suggests that the rocks are in fact leeching into the water column - speculation of course. However it would be worth checking the RO water from the source, i.e. from the RO machine - if it shows a kH reading then the RO machine is faulty and should be serviced, which would require new membranes!

You also state you are controlling the pH with a controller, this suggests you are using CO2. I've mixed views on using CO2 in a discus tank but tend these days not to. I've kept plenty where they don't care one way or the other, but I've also had a couple that were quite stressed by the CO2, ironically none of the wilds were ever bothered, only domestics.

The plants you have don't look as though they require injected CO2 but if you want to keep using it I'd ditch the controller and set the needle valve to deliver around 3 bubbles per second and put the CO2 on a timer so it comes on and hour or two before lights on and goes off an couple of hours before lights out. Controllers are bad news in my experience, particularly using CO2 in very soft water and even more so if CO2 pumps in at night.

People worry over stable pH with discus and there is no need to. Discus have evolved to deal with pH changes throughout the day. It is typical for the pH to vary by as much as two points over the course of 24 hours. Of course rapid changes are not good, particularly high to low, but by rapid I am talking about 2 or more point drop in under five minutes, not over the course of a day.

So test the RO water and lets see where we are with it. I'd not recommend using straight RO from a properly working machine btw, always re-mineralise it.

The food looks to be some form of beefheart, I see in parts of the video what appears to be quite a lot of it on the tank floor, that may be because you have just fed them, but if the food gets trapped in those rocks it could foul the water. Another good reason to ditch them.

[YSS]

Also, how long have you had the discus? And if rocks are of concern, how long have rocks been in the tank?

[OC Discus]

To clarify my earlier remarks, with large/frequent water changes and healthy fish substrate can be a non-issue. But with small or infrequent water changes like the op is doing substrate can become an issue over time due to build up that can't be vacuumed out. If the op is changing 50% daily substrate should not be an issue. If maintenance schedule is not increased bare bottom would be better.


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