Is this a disease or an injury?

[zergling]

I came home to find one of my blues with a massive wound on his head. As this was not present when I finished their water change at 1AM this morning, my initial thought is that it injured inself via a serious collision onto something in the tank.

However, the "injury" seems to have a circular, ring-like formation on it, which makes me worry that I have a disease that needs to be addressed. Obviously, please point out to me if I'm just imagining this.

1. Please explain the problems with your fish. When did you notice the problems and did anything unusual happen that you think started them?
- Big head wound - was not present at 1:00AM, first seen at 7:00PM

2. Symptoms (i.e. turning dark, excess slime, not eating, clamped fins, flashing, darting, clamped gills, white/yellow/green poop, hiding, headstanding or tailstanding, white on tips of fins, rotting or fungus, blisters/white zits on fish, bloated, cloudy eyes, wounds).
- Big head wound
- Turning dark, but seems to be on the outer portion(?) only. Middle seems to be the same/normal blue brightness
- First time I've seen it start to show its stress bars since its first few days in the tank.

3. What medications/ treatments have you already tried and what were the results. Include dosage and duration of treatment.
- Only Seachem Prime during water changes

Tank/Water

4. Tank size and ages, numbers and sizes of fish.
- 64-ish gallon
- 8 Discus: One small at 3.5"-ish, the rest are 4.5" to 5.5"
- I started with six juvies back in 8/25/14. They were 2.5" at best. One is still small, which I estimate to be 3.5" or so, the rest are now roughly the same size as the female Blue Diamond (which I measured at 4.75" last October)
*An adult pair was added back in October - a 4.75" Blue Diamond female and a 5.5" Red Turq with black halo (my best guess re its strain)
- 2 Espei Rasbora
- 1 long-fin Albino Bristlenose Pleco
- a few dozen red cherry shrimp

5. Water change regime (What percentage and how often).
- Daily 50%

6. How long has tank been running? Is it bare bottom? If you have substrate, what type and how deep is it?
- The tank and some of the equipment are a little over 7 years old, but I did a tear down for a fresh cycle back in August. Heavy seeding from filter media from other 2+ year old tanks.
- Sand bottom, anywhere from 0.5" to 1" deep.

7. Do you age your water? If you do for how long and what is the ph swing.
- No
- Will test pH later if necessary

8. Parameters and water source;
- tap San Francisco water

Note: Water Parameters are important in diagnosing problems within a tank. If you don't own test kits for the following information, you can purchase them, test your parameters and post this info as soon as possible.


- temp __82___

- ph _____ will test later if necessary

- ammonia reading ____ will test later if necessary

- nitrite reading ____ will test later if necessary

- nitrate reading ____ will test later if necessary

What type of water or combinations of water sources do you use? If it is an RO/tap/well water mix, please list percentages in the mix.
- tap water + Seachem Prime only


9. Any new fish, plants or inverts added recently.
- no

10. Include any pictures or videos you have which shows the symptoms. If you can't add them to this post, please provide a link to them.

[brewmaster15]

Hi,
That infection really looks like its been going a while..is it possible you missed earlier signs like swelling?

I would definitely get that fish into a hospitol tank asap and consider antibiotics....thats a serious infection going. on there. Personally I would net the fish and try and swab that area with peroxide or iodine to clean it up....it may help the healing.
al

[zergling]

Thanks Al, but this definitely only came up today. I have been watching all 8 fish regularly since I got them - the tank size and layout makes it easy to check for each and everyone of them during feeding time and water changes. I actually pay a lot of attention to this particular fish as in the past week or so, it has been keeping close to the big red turq - I was wondering if it will eventually displace the blue diamond.

Now I'm worried - how on earth does an infection like this come up and develop to this severity in less than 18 hours??

In any case, I'll move the sick fish to its own tank. I'll try to swab the area with peroxide after netting the fish - hopefully it doesn't flop off of my hand like it did when I first got it.

How long should I observe the sick fish in the hospital tank before medicating, and what would be the recommended medication? I have Seachem Paraguard (IIRC glutaraldehyde and malachite green), but I haven't seen this medication mentioned much here in simply.

[brewmaster15]

Its possible its a viral outbreak but hard to tell. You can't treat it if viral, it may heal on its own.. If could have been a pocket of bacteria that was growing and ruptured..I've only seen that once, and the fish did not survive. Either way, isolate it so it doesn't spread to others. I'd swab and see what it looks like..my guess is its going to be a very deep pit.

-al

[zergling]

Thanks Al, I really appreciate your help here.

Unfortunately, the sick discus passed away this morning. I took some pictures before I bagged him away.






If this turns out to be a disease outbreak, I imagine I should start seeing symptoms with the other fish soon. Are there any kind of medication that I should have handy?

[brewmaster15]

Bummer on its death. Lets hope it was not a pathogenic virus or bacteria, but something isolated a local infection. IN the time frame that you noticed this and it died, there will not be any way to treat it if other fish follow that route. Best suggestion is find a fish pathologist near you an get them a fish that shows symptoms. If not that a vet.. You'll probably need an injectible antibiotic for something like this.... if its bacterial. might even be worthwhile freezing that fish for now in case its needed.

I've seen alot of fish with infections, but few that come close to this as far as how acute it was....I'd avoid adding any fish to that tank for a while and watch the others very closely... again.it may not be anything contagious.

hth,
al

[zergling]

Thanks again, Al. I'm keeping a close eye on the rest of the fish, and hope that this doesn't turn out to be an outbreak.