A little different.

[dprais1]

Here is my grow out tank. Trying to make maintenance as easy as possible.

A bit about the setup.
30 gallon tank filled to within 3" of the top.
barebottom
florescent light on 24 hrs a day
82 degrees
one suction cup style sponge driven by an air pump
one AC 20 with filter floss (set to 'low')
one big rock
4 quarter size BD, 3 quarter size SS, 1 1.5" cobalt with some fin deformities
feeding on whiteworms and microsticks (beefheart and brineshrimp from almostnaturalfishfood)
fed at least 3x a day but often 4-5
waterchanges consist of siphoning all the waste from the bottom daily, sometimes 2x day. ends up being a 25-75% change each time
new water has been Primed, aged, bubbled and heated to about 78degrees.

Water changes take about 10 minutes.

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The sponge filter being fixed to the glass as high up as possible is to minimize the collection of debris and waste. It's just for bio filtration.
The AC 20, set to low, is only to help polish the water hence only using filter floss. That floss gets changed 2-3x a week. It has yet to look dirty but I know it collects lots of little particles in the water. I know because of the absence of said little particles in the water.
If I set the AC to 'high' the tank is cleaner but then I'm all doing is trapping the waste in the filter and exposing it to high flow rates, encouraging it to break down or dissolve into the water column. In the least I would then need to change the floss daily. you will also not the AC is right next to the sponge, by design.

The big rock divides the tank. one side for filtration, one side for feeding.

The rock diminishes water flow and current on the feeding side so very little food ends up in filters or the water column instead it sits on the bottom waiting to be eaten or sucked up on the next water change.

White worms are fed 1-2x a day and sparingly, enough so the fish have bulging bellies but not so much that there are any left after 3-5minutes. when I feed the worms I also feed the microsticks. These are key. The soften up in the water in 5 minutes or so and start to breakdown in 15minutes. 5-6 sticks will be grazed upon over the next couple hours. By the next feeding the only thing on the bottom of the tank will be poop and a tiny dusting of leftover food. The nightime feeding will be 8-10 sticks. I don't think this would work with some of the more water stable foods, they wouldn't break down and provide the same steady grazing opportunities over the course of several hours. If you feed too much a layer of what I believe to be bacteria covers the leftover food.

Finding out the right amount to feed is probably the biggest challenge.

Stronger filtration disrupts the broken down food too much and either makes a mess or the food gets sucked up into the filter. I tried flakes and it didn't work the same. I tried a seafood mix and it also made too much of a mess.--I have a 46gallon bowfront with 5 dd angels, a pair of GBR and 3 cories, a canister filter and an AC 50 with filter floss. When I feed these microsticks in that tank the angels devour them in a few minutes but the filter floss still becomes filthy in a few days. Flakes work better in that tank with the greater flow.

I've been using this set up for just under 2 weeks. All the fish have grown considerably except the runt. He is my yardstick to compare the others. I would say all the fish have gained at least .5" in two weeks. The cobalt a bit more.


Remember this is only two weeks in, so time will tell.

[brewmaster15]

Keep the updates coming. .. question , whats the purpose of the large rock in the middle?

al

[dprais1]

The large rock reduces any water flow from the AC 20 on the left side(feeding side) of the tank. In effect I'm trying to keep the filters clean and not having them trap any food and debris. Food and debris is removed manually through water changes.

The rock is pretty flat on the bottom, not perfectly flat but the best I had.

I could probably get similar results if I ditch the rock and the HOB filter and just kept the sponge but I like the clarity of the water when using the hob filter.

If I choose different foods I would also get some different results. Last night I put in a 'meat' type wafer from ken'sfish. After 10 hours it was still pretty much intact sitting at the bottom of the tank.

The only real advantage I think to this set up is that instead of giving these small fish 4 or 5 big meals that might last 15min each I am able to give them the opportunity to graze for a couple hours at a time and still(so far) maintain water quality.

This may have no effect at all, I'm not sure I'm even expecting anything in particular except to find a system that works with very little maintenance for me.

And document what I am doing.

[brewmaster15]

If you are looking for another possible suggestion that will keep the water clean and redirectional .. instead of the rock, filter and sponge system. Have you considered using a sponge driven by a small powerhead. You can easily direct the out flow of the power head.. even can modify it with a tube down to the bottom of the tank.

just a thought,
al

[nc0gnet0]

If you are looking for another possible suggestion that will keep the water clean and redirectional .. instead of the rock, filter and sponge system. Have you considered using a sponge driven by a small powerhead. You can easily direct the out flow of the power head.. even can modify it with a tube down to the bottom of the tank.

just a thought,
al

I do this very thing with one small alteration, I affix a normal size sponge filter to the input a magnum 250, much like you would use a "pre-filter" albeit with a normal size sponge filter. The net result is a powered sponge filter that can be directed any where you want it, the sponge does not sit on the tank floor, and you can get at it for cleaning much easier.

[blueluv]

If you are looking for another possible suggestion that will keep the water clean and redirectional .. instead of the rock, filter and sponge system. Have you considered using a sponge driven by a small powerhead. You can easily direct the out flow of the power head.. even can modify it with a tube down to the bottom of the tank.

just a thought,
al

I do this very thing with one small alteration, I affix a normal size sponge filter to the input a magnum 250, much like you would use a "pre-filter" albeit with a normal size sponge filter. The net result is a powered sponge filter that can be directed any where you want it, the sponge does not sit on the tank floor, and you can get at it for cleaning much easier.

Interesting. Would this keep the water well oxygenated ? Rick. Would you mind sharing a pic of the sponge connected to the magnum 250 ?

[drondy]

I do the same thing. I have fashioned a sponge over the intake for my canister filter and clean the sponge every time I do a water change. This limits the amount of gunk in the filter and therefore the tank. You would be surprised how this little sponge gathers dirt.

[blueluv]

I do this very thing with one small alteration, I affix a normal size sponge filter to the input a magnum 250, much like you would use a "pre-filter" albeit with a normal size sponge filter. The net result is a powered sponge filter that can be directed any where you want it, the sponge does not sit on the tank floor, and you can get at it for cleaning much easier.

Would this be cheaper than buying two sponge filters, say for a 75 gallon aquarium?

Interesting. Would this keep the water well oxygenated ? Rick. Would you mind sharing a pic of the sponge connected to the magnum 250 ?

Bump

[blueluv]

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...4&pcatid=20404
Al, Rick. Are you guys talking about this pump ?

[dprais1]

After much think about what I hoped for this tank; really clean and fast, easy maintenance, I realized the AC just added another layer of maintenance. So after two weeks of using it I tuned it off. (well, friday I turned it off) And got rid of that silly stone.

The result.

-water column has more particles, even after a water change.
-A bit less to worry/think about since i don't have to prime the AC or change the floss, etc
-discus seems unaffected
-the whole several hours of feeding idea seems to still work fine

Thoughts
1. Those particles really bother me for some reason, although I can only see them if I look at the water with the black trim as a backdrop or if I really try to and stick my nose against the glass. The hob never made it crystal clear but it was better. I moved the heater as far down on the back of the tank as possible. For the past few days my WC have gone to the point where the heater is just a bit exposed to the air. Still have the particles.

2. I am concerned that maybe the air driven filter doesn't provide enough flow to heat the water properly. But not overly concerned.

3. So...I am back to the basic BB, sponge, heater and big WC approach. The only difference is I am only feeding a commercially available dry-prepared food supplemented with whiteworms.

[dprais1]

I do this very thing with one small alteration, I affix a normal size sponge filter to the input a magnum 250, much like you would use a "pre-filter" albeit with a normal size sponge filter. The net result is a powered sponge filter that can be directed any where you want it, the sponge does not sit on the tank floor, and you can get at it for cleaning much easier.

Hmmm. You have tempted me. So much so I added a Magnum HOB to my Kensfish online cart, thought I could use it with the polishing insert for an hour after a water change to make my tank sparkle.

I really want to.

BUT when I got back into discus I said that I would use the money I got from selling off my colony of OEBT shrimp and their supplies to fund my initial discus purchase. I said I would try to do discus right but easy. So I am keeping the Magnum on my mental list but I should really wait 3-4 months before I do decide to spend any more money.

--but there is still a tickle in the back of my brain so we will see.

[brewmaster15]

Hmmm. You have tempted me. So much so I added a Magnum HOB to my Kensfish online cart, thought I could use it with the polishing insert for an hour after a water change to make my tank sparkle.

I really want to.

BUT when I got back into discus I said that I would use the money I got from selling off my colony of OEBT shrimp and their supplies to fund my initial discus purchase. I said I would try to do discus right but easy. So I am keeping the Magnum on my mental list but I should really wait 3-4 months before I do decide to spend any more money.

--but there is still a tickle in the back of my brain so we will see.

Be Human... Give in to that tickle.
al

[nc0gnet0]

http://www.petsolutions.com/C/Aquari...FWFp7Aod0T8AuA

[dprais1]

Well....

I added an air stone to add some flow on the side opposite the filter. Since I have an extra sponge filter sitting around I may attach the air stone to that for the heck of it. A little redundency for bio filtration.

Just upping the waterchange volume seems to have solved the 'small floating particle" problem, at least in the short term.

I recently switched from using aged water to just filling straight from tap. At first I thought it was a non issue, but after some more observation I do see them shedding some slime coat. Yesterday had the new water run through a fine filter sock to reduce bubbles. This worked pretty well, well see how it goes today, maybe I will add some poret foam as well.

I moved the largest fish to my upstairs angelfish tank. Mostly because he isn't a keeper and is eating all the whiteworms too fast.

So, I now have 7 discus left. All started off about 1" or quarter size. I visually estimate them to be 1.5 to 1.75". visually.

This weekend will make 4 weeks, I will attempt an official measure.

I have also had to up the feeding amount, I give either the 5-6 ministicks, but repeatedly, maybe every hour for 2-3hours if I'll be around. Or closer to 12-15 sticks if I won't be able to repeat feed.
--If I count the mini-repeat feedings as one regular feeding I am still feeding 3-4 times a day on average. Whiteworms twice(on average) a day then the microstick at the same time as whiteworms and at least 1 additional microstick only meal (but usually 2).

Water changes 1-2x a day at least 85%, or, more accuratley, I leave just enough to keep most of the heater submerged.

[dprais1]

still seeing some slime coat shed with waterchanges through a filter sock. I adjusted the temp to +/- 83 degrees in my aging barrel and just let my mag 9.5 recirculate the water for 10+ minutes with the output of the hose above the water level in the container. creating a splashing effect. mag 9.5 is pretty strong.

This time no slime coat shedding and much faster "recovery from WC". so I will continue this when I need to.... but I will also place an order for anew heater and start to either age, again, or "fast age" my water as needed. probably a little of both.