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Thread: 75g Acrylic tank w/ 40g sump (Journal build thread)

  1. #16
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet another Journal? :)

    Ok, being that this is a journal, I will take you guys through some of my "in the works" ideas. In order to share these with you, I should share the fact that I have never done a sump filter before, and I just recently have started with acrylic tanks. With that being said, I have put in a lot of leg work in researching sumps/overflows and plumbing and I think I may have most of the "principles" in check.

    However, if you see anything wrong with my thought process, please voice it, as I am not going in completely blind, but I do not have any previous experience with all this.

    • Goals:

    My goals are simple;
    -I want to maxamize the space that I am limited to (4ft) by using a sump to get extra water volume. This has already been achieved by acquiring a 40g breeder that fits under the stand.

    -I am set on a Bean Animal overflow - I will go in to detail later in this post on what that entails.

    -I plan on going coast to coast with the internal box for skimming

    -I need to find out exact details on how to lay out a sump, specifically how to place baffles, what thickness they need to be and so on. I plan on doing biological and mechanical filtration with sump.

    -I'm hoping to only do sand and driftwood in this tank with possibly anubias and ferns tied to the driftwood. I have debated back and forth on a fully planted high tech tank again, but dealing with a new aspect of the hobby (sumps), I think I may just take it easy and tackle one at a time.

    -I also need to reinforce the stand. I bought the whole setup used, and while the tank was in great condition, the stand could use some work. I was thinking of going completely DIY, but I have done that for the past 2 tanks, and I have gone north of $200 on both builds on stands alone, and I am learning (much to my dissapointment) that most people will not pay good money for a DIY stand, no matter how good it looks, or how much it cost you, lol.

    -To investigate about having 2 returns to the tank

    -To find out if the inside background can be painted


    • Explanation of sump build:

    I will explain how I started my research. I knew I wanted a sump, which in turn meant that I had to figure out what type of overflow I would want. Well, turns out, there are A LOT of them out there, lol.

    The tradtional one is a Durso Standpipe. The other I found is a Herbie Style overflow. Lastly, the one that I liked most is the Bean animal overflow.

    I will not go in to much detail about the other two, but the Durso was the one that most people used over the years. The other two are spin offs of the traditional Durso. The Herbie style still remains INSIDE of the tank and flows to the sump through the bottom glass. I have read that this setup can be made to run really quite, almost silent. I have read the same claim about Durso, but have also read that not everyone can make a Durso very quite all the time. For this reason, the appeal for the Bean Animal overflow is the one that appealed to me the most.

    The Bean animal overflow incorporates an inside box that is siliconed, or welded (acrylic) to the top back part of the tank. This L shaped box has "teeth" at the top of the box, also known as a weir. This weir serves as a protection for your fish so that they do not take a ride down the filter pipes.

    Now, inside of this internal box, you have to drill 3 holes in the back of your tank. These 3 holes are the ones that let water in to the actual overflow reservoir where you have your plumbing. This outside box is where all the action happens. With the bean animal overflow, it incorporates 3 potential drain pipes to the sump. This was the main appeal for me to chose this setup. My biggest fear and the reason I had never gone with a sump was the fear of flooding. This method makes it so that if you have a drain pipe failure, the next one in line can pick up the slack and keep working as normal. Basically, this setup has a drain pipe that is always at full siphon. One other, is barely siphoning anything, and lets in a little air by way of an airline at the top. The last one is simply an emergency line that will activate if one of the others fail. Which in turn would turn the one with the airline hose in to full siphon, and the emergency in to the relief.

    To get a better sense of what I am talking about, take a look at this video of a guy running a bean animal style overflow:
    How To: Coast to Coast/ bean animal overflow External plumbing

    There actually aren't many videos out there that depict the process so well as this video. I have gone through quite a few videos and most tend to not tell you everything you need to know and assume you know it.

    There is one more video that was very helpful to me but this user used a very small width internal box like I plan to use. He used gutter guard and let the water spill through to the internal box. He does go over the need of siphon breaks at the end of the video as well which was new information to me at that point in my research.

    Check out the video here:
    BeanAnimal Overflow


    So with all of that being said, why the need for a "coast to coast" internal box? One of the main reasons for excessive noise is because the water flows over to the overflow side as a stream because most use very small surface area. The point of a coast to coast setup is that you take advantage of the fact that the water comes OVER in to the internal box by way of a lot of surface area. Think of it in these terms, lets say you have a large tank, say 125g. Now, imagine filling it up to the top right before it spills over and imagine there is a whole bunch of holes letting water out. The water coming out is coming out of the tank as a stream. Now, imagine that same tank overflowing. The water will overflow out of the tank almost as a sheet of water because it has so much surface area to do so. This is what we are trying to mimic with a coast to coast internal box. The box will allow a whole lot of water to enter to the overflow, but it will enter it by a sheet of water, rather than a stream of it. This reduces noise, and is very effective in getting a whole of water to your overflow.

    That explains why I want to go with coast to coast. Now, the part I am having a difficult time visualizing is the fact that I have to make a basic L shaped acrlyic piece, and since my tank has a top pane of acrlyic, I am not sure how I go about welding it in place. I asked over at reef central and they tell me that welding the acrylic on the outside only will suffice. I believe they are correct, and in effect, this would allow me to make the weir actually go all the way towards the top of the tank and actually hitting the top pane which would make it next to impossible for a fish to get caught in the filtration.

    I am still in need of figuring out exactly what components I need to purchase in order to make all of this work. The link I provided is pretty straight forward, but since I hadn't actually gotten the tank when I did my research, I didn't mind it too much knowing that I would have to come back to it. I need to figure out how far apart the baffles in the sump need to be as well as how thick and other things of that nature. Again, this is a learning process for me, so maybe we can learn all of these things together?

    • Helpful links:

    The following links have helped me understand the whole sump, overflow and general plumbing situation. Hopefully you can read through them and gain some knowledge that you did not previously have:

    -Understanding Sump
    -Everything you always wanted to know about sumps I
    -Everything you always wanted to know about sumps II
    -A great sump thread here in our very own SimplyDiscus
    -Bulkhead sizing
    -A place to buy all kinds of PVC fittings
    -Another video from the gentleman earlier mentioned
    -How to weld acrylic
    -DIY acrylic
    -Sump calculator
    -Humongous bean animal setup
    -another good sump read

    • Conclusion:


    As you can probably tell, I am not going in blindly on this. I have done a bit of research and I feel that I should be able to do this successfully. Again, if you see any flaws, or anything that make my life easier, please let me know.

    I will of course do step by step like I do in most of my builds so that you guys/gals can learn along the way as well.

    Fauna is still undetermined, but of course I have to be leaning towards discus because they have the biggest calling for me, but I may just do something else, just to venture from the norm. Any suggestions?
    Last edited by rickztahone; 01-22-2015 at 08:17 PM.

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

    Also, click here for my 25 group of discus grow out thread


    http://i3.cpcache.com/product/162117...ht=75&width=75
    Want to look like Al did at his ACA talk with his white Simply Polo shirt?(You can catch Al's awesome Discus talk HERE)
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  2. #17
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet another Journal? 75g Acrylic w/ 40g sump build thread

    I believe I will change the way I will approach the inner overflow box. I am going to do the traditional route and use bulkheads through the backwall to get the pvc elbows in the inner box. This way, there is no outside box I have to worry about. The reason I chose to go the traditional route, is that I believe this may be less noisy overall. The reason I wanted to go with an alternative setup in the first place, was to reduce the amount of space used behind the tank. I could have made the overflow box longer rather than wider and it would have sat flush to the wall. In the traditional manner, the pvc would be the one hitting the wall, and a little more space taken. Either way, the traditional route has one less thing that can go wrong.

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

    Also, click here for my 25 group of discus grow out thread


    http://i3.cpcache.com/product/162117...ht=75&width=75
    Want to look like Al did at his ACA talk with his white Simply Polo shirt?(You can catch Al's awesome Discus talk HERE)
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  3. #18
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet another Journal? 75g Acrylic w/ 40g sump build thread

    For those familiar with sumps, is there a general concensus on good quality submersible pumps? I saw a couple at Jehmco but really can't ascertain if they are good reviewed products by fellow hobbyists or not. I'm looking at something in the 750gph at 5' roughly. This was advised in another forum, but I am not sure if that is the number I should be shooting for? If I go with discus, I'm not sure if that would create too much current. I know the saltwater people use more flow in their reef tanks.

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

    Also, click here for my 25 group of discus grow out thread


    http://i3.cpcache.com/product/162117...ht=75&width=75
    Want to look like Al did at his ACA talk with his white Simply Polo shirt?(You can catch Al's awesome Discus talk HERE)
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  4. #19
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet another Journal? 75g Acrylic w/ 40g sump build thread

    Ricardo, look at a mag-drive 7. I run one of those in my 75.
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  5. #20
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet another Journal? 75g Acrylic w/ 40g sump build thread

    Quote Originally Posted by Second Hand Pat View Post
    Ricardo, look at a mag-drive 7. I run one of those in my 75.
    If it works for you Pat, it works for me. Another quick question, on return lines, does it matter what type of outflow adapter you use? I ask because from what I am reading, you really do not want to restrict water flow through the pipes, this means no 90 degree elbows and such. Wouldn't putting one of those flat nozzles on outlet restrict the flow significantly?

    I swear, I've been researching sumps/overflows/plumbing for months now and some of it still goes over my head. I think I may be over-thinking most times.

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

    Also, click here for my 25 group of discus grow out thread


    http://i3.cpcache.com/product/162117...ht=75&width=75
    Want to look like Al did at his ACA talk with his white Simply Polo shirt?(You can catch Al's awesome Discus talk HERE)
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  6. #21
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet another Journal? 75g Acrylic w/ 40g sump build thread

    I have two 90 degree angles on my return line on my 90 but this tank does not have a mag-drive. Not sure of the pump on this tank. Can you lost a picture of a flat nozzle?
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


  7. #22
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet another Journal? 75g Acrylic w/ 40g sump build thread

    Ok, if any of you are still following, the following are steps and research I have taken to be more informed before I buy anything the first time around.

    People underestimate research, but it is research that has saved me a ton of money over the years in this hobby. There is nothing worse than getting home, ready to set something up and when you are half way through the build, you realize you got the wrong piece, or didn't account for something and you need to stop to get it or fix something.

    This is why I put so much research time in to my builds. Again, being that this is my first sump build, I am being even more tedious than usual.

    At first, the task of a sump seemed daunting, but after putting in quite a few days of research, I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

    So, moving to some of the things I found out:

    • With the Bean Animal overflow system, he depicts 3 True union ball valves in his design. I have since learned that all 3 or not actually needed, only the full siphon line needs the valve.


    • Additionally, the valve should be a Gate valve like This one for better precision adjustment rather than the true union ball valve.


    • Schedule 40 plumbing is fine for everything to do with plumbing, but Schedule 80 valves are much better. The 80's sometimes will not fit well with the 40's but typically when they are threaded type pieces


    • 90 degree elbows should be avoided whenever possible and 45 degree ones should be used more often. Pockets of air get trapped in this horizontal runs that you want to avoid, they are the main culprits in causing noise.


    • PVC unions should be implemented closer to the pump so that it isn't hard plumped and you can take it apart for maintenance


    • Additionally, I have found a website that explains sump builds pretty well. While researching, I noticed that many people talk with the assumption that you know where everything goes and that it is a given. That is not true most of the time with me, lol. So, I found this article: Reef Aquarium sump tank design that does a great job of showing you what you are aiming for. Additionally, this same article leads you to many other great ones, which I will share with you here:


    • I found another article which shows you how to make adjustable baffles here


    • Hole saw sizes for bulk heads here


    • A good read about "rules" as far as where to drill holes on your tank here


    • A great store to buy Loc-Line from here


    • A place to find every single piece of pvc you could possibly need here


    As you can see, some leg work here, but hopefully some of these will help you get a little closer to possibly going to a sump in one of your future tanks.

    I will start ordering soon. I need to buy acrylic for my coast to coast first as well as for my baffles. I will have the baffles cut each section in to thirds.

    If you have any questions, feel free to ask them here, and maybe we can learn together
    Last edited by rickztahone; 01-27-2015 at 07:57 PM.

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

    Also, click here for my 25 group of discus grow out thread


    http://i3.cpcache.com/product/162117...ht=75&width=75
    Want to look like Al did at his ACA talk with his white Simply Polo shirt?(You can catch Al's awesome Discus talk HERE)
    You can get this and many more items such as T-shirts/Polos/hoodies/cups from our merchandise shop:
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  8. #23
    Homesteader MKD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet another Journal? 75g Acrylic w/ 40g sump build thread

    this is awsome project Rick. are you cutting and gluing acrylic?? what are you using ??
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  9. #24
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    Default Re: Yet another Journal? 75g Acrylic w/ 40g sump build thread

    Terrific compilation of useful information! Thank you! I am planning a new tank build myself, and have been baffled (no pun intended) with trying to find a concept or direction to pursue with the plumbing. Your work is very, very helpful and plan to follow your build with great interest. I think this is my first post in a couple of years! Thanks again. - Prashanth

  10. #25
    Registered Member dprais1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet another Journal? 75g Acrylic w/ 40g sump build thread

    for what it's worth....

    I ran a durso and it was always noisy. I loved having a sump but it wasn't worth it because of the noise. My 75 reef ready tank now houses two juvenile red foot tortoises.

    I ran a mag 5 on a 75 gallon tank and it was a little bit too weak
    I switched to a mag 9.5, good flow but would blow even heavy sand around and provided some really strong focused current.

    I think a mag 7 would have been perfect. if I remember correctly there are two mag 7. I think the aquarium type has a 3' cord and the pond model a 6' cord? The price and everything else appears the same. go for the 6' cord.

    IMO you can spend hundreds of dollars playing with baffles and ceramic media, k1 media, bio-spheres, bio-bale and all the latest filter media. And all you will have is a really expensive sump. I think one or two 4" of the very coarse poret foam will provide more than enough surface area for all biological filtration you will ever need. ever.

    Get some filter socks or you can rig up a sheet of the filter sock material before the return pump and your water will be crystal clear.

  11. #26
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet another Journal? 75g Acrylic w/ 40g sump build thread

    Quote Originally Posted by MKD View Post
    this is awsome project Rick. are you cutting and gluing acrylic?? what are you using ??
    Yeah, I found a company in Santa Monica that specializes in tinted acrylic. I will get the acrylic from them, and I will make the baffles and coast to coast overflow myself by welding it in place. Hopefully successfully, lol. If this project is anything like the other, I'm sure it is going to snowball in to this whole other thing somehow, lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by pkumar View Post
    Terrific compilation of useful information! Thank you! I am planning a new tank build myself, and have been baffled (no pun intended) with trying to find a concept or direction to pursue with the plumbing. Your work is very, very helpful and plan to follow your build with great interest. I think this is my first post in a couple of years! Thanks again. - Prashanth
    That is wonderful! If I can help only one person, then my job is done . Keep following, I will try posting more cool plumbing. If you really are interesting in some awesome plumbing though, check out This thread!

    Quote Originally Posted by dprais1 View Post
    for what it's worth....

    I ran a durso and it was always noisy. I loved having a sump but it wasn't worth it because of the noise. My 75 reef ready tank now houses two juvenile red foot tortoises.

    I ran a mag 5 on a 75 gallon tank and it was a little bit too weak
    I switched to a mag 9.5, good flow but would blow even heavy sand around and provided some really strong focused current.

    I think a mag 7 would have been perfect. if I remember correctly there are two mag 7. I think the aquarium type has a 3' cord and the pond model a 6' cord? The price and everything else appears the same. go for the 6' cord.

    IMO you can spend hundreds of dollars playing with baffles and ceramic media, k1 media, bio-spheres, bio-bale and all the latest filter media. And all you will have is a really expensive sump. I think one or two 4" of the very coarse poret foam will provide more than enough surface area for all biological filtration you will ever need. ever.

    Get some filter socks or you can rig up a sheet of the filter sock material before the return pump and your water will be crystal clear.
    Pat was the one that recommended the Mag 7 and it is at the top of my list. The only other one at the top of my list is the eheim 1260 because so many seem to recommend it for quite operation. Plus, many have claimed owning them for many years without problems, just like the Mag7

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

    Also, click here for my 25 group of discus grow out thread


    http://i3.cpcache.com/product/162117...ht=75&width=75
    Want to look like Al did at his ACA talk with his white Simply Polo shirt?(You can catch Al's awesome Discus talk HERE)
    You can get this and many more items such as T-shirts/Polos/hoodies/cups from our merchandise shop:
    Cafepress.com

  12. #27
    Registered Member farebox's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet another Journal? 75g Acrylic w/ 40g sump build thread

    Project sounds real good. When I went with an sump, kept everything simple. Checked the video on Joise's 300 gallon open tank. Since my tank wasn't drilled went an pre-filter siphon box from Lifereef.com. All the plumbing was supplied and correct water pump. All I had to do was install.

  13. #28
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet another Journal? 75g Acrylic w/ 40g sump build thread

    Quote Originally Posted by farebox View Post
    Project sounds real good. When I went with an sump, kept everything simple. Checked the video on Joise's 300 gallon open tank. Since my tank wasn't drilled went an pre-filter siphon box from Lifereef.com. All the plumbing was supplied and correct water pump. All I had to do was install.
    Nice. I remember seeing your post farebox. While my tanks aren't drilled now, I have full confidence in drilling acrylic. It is one of the reasons I was searching for an acrylic tank to begin with. Had it been glass, I would have had more hesitancy to drill, but I probably would have still done it.

    One of the key reasons why I chose to go the drilling way over the U-Tube was because of my concern and paranoia about flooding my place. I know you say that your system runs well, but the fact still remains that the chances of a flood from a U-Tube are greater than a drilled tank if done properly. Again, I do not doubt that your system is up to par, but I wanted to take the system that had the absolute least probability of flooding. That is the beauty of the bean animal systme. Even if 2 drains fail, you still have a 3rd drain that will work as a full siphon. The chances of 3 drains failing is very very slim.

    I will keep this thing rolling. Got 2 200w Jager heaters today for the sump from Jehmco and they were only $20 a piece! Can't beat that.

    Now, if I could only sell either of my current tanks locally.........then I could really get this show on the road, lol.
    Last edited by rickztahone; 02-15-2015 at 06:36 PM.

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

    Also, click here for my 25 group of discus grow out thread


    http://i3.cpcache.com/product/162117...ht=75&width=75
    Want to look like Al did at his ACA talk with his white Simply Polo shirt?(You can catch Al's awesome Discus talk HERE)
    You can get this and many more items such as T-shirts/Polos/hoodies/cups from our merchandise shop:
    Cafepress.com

  14. #29
    Registered Member dprais1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yet another Journal? 75g Acrylic w/ 40g sump build thread

    drilling an acrylic tank is super easy and fast. even if you do it really carefully and go turtle-slow it still only takes a minute. I drilled holes in my 46 bowfront and couldn't be happier with the results.

  15. #30
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    Default Re: Yet another Journal? 75g Acrylic w/ 40g sump build thread

    Learned a lot from this guy back in my reef days, he is pretty much considered an artist for his work and diy videos and plans for sumps, plumbing, and overflows. Just thought you might want to check it out

    http://www.melevsreef.com/category/articles/diy/sumps

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