Beginner needing some expert advice

[ericNH]

With all the reading I'm doing, I must say I beginning to be a little worried about my ability to do a good job with Discus. Did anyone else feel that way at first?

Don't be discouraged! Just staying on top of your water changes will get you very far. Set up a water-change system that makes it easy, and you'll be well on your way to keeping beautiful discus!

[DISCUS STU]

One of the things I do even in my bb tanks is to have some ceramic planters with either Radican, preferred, or some other type of Sword plant. They are planted in sand. This avoids the completely sterile look of a completely bb tank. See attached. This give the tank a warmer look and also helps with water quality as the plants consume harmful waste products and help to balance a tank.

This particular setup has two planters in this 60 gallon tank. bb tank with planter.jpg

I think it's important to not project human feelings, anthropomorphize, on to fish and other animals. It's a natural tendency and one that arises from empathy and the desire to properly take of an animal in our charge, but I think it needs to be understood that these are animals and have their own distinct needs.

I was speaking to an ichthyologist who was keeping a large Discus setup at the Atlanta aquarium. His main concern was to keep as stress free an environment as possible for Discus and all his fish. "Stress free" to my understanding relates to a healthy environment free of toxins and pathogens, well balanced in regard aggression between the inhabitants, and other physical / psychological that can either help or hurt the animals under our care. While it seems like a great idea to setup a nice planted tank that isn't bb it could end up being one of the worst things for the health of the fish if not done properly. It's a lot more complicated than just having some plants in a tank. It usually doesn't work out well for growing fish.

I think one of the things I can provide is a healthy environment where my fish don't have to worry about becoming another fish's diner. Think I just anthropomorphizied (lol).

Good luck with your fish and setup. Enjoy! In the end it's supposed to be about having fun and enjoying this hobby.

[nevertooold]

Thanks Stu, I realize I do over empathize with anything in my care. As a species I feel we do less than a stellar job of looking after the other inhabitants of this planet. I guess I keep trying in a small way to make up for that. I do want to keep my fish in a healthy, stress free environment and will do my best to make that happen. I have another question for anyone on the forum. In reading, several sites have suggested that the Eheim 2217 canister filter that I have for my 90 gallon tank might not be enough, and have suggested the addition of a HOB filter. I did ask that question here and was told it was probably okay as long as I didn't overpopulate my tank. As I am new to all this, and my tank vacuuming might not be as thorough as someone more experienced would do, would it protect my fish more if I did add a HOB filter or another canister filter? I am trying to pick up a good portion of my equipment as used, and if the addition of another filter would be a good idea I will start watching craigslist. I have to watch the cash flow or I won't have any money to buy the Discus. I'll have a big old tank, with great water quality and no fish! lol Thanks to everyone for putting up with me. Think I am driving my poor husband crazy

[DISCUS STU]

I've supplemented my Eheim 2217 in my 90 gal. setup by using a large Aquaclear (110?) they've renamed them recently. I'd add two airstones with separate air pumps for a 90 also. Don't count on the HOB alone to provide aeration, they seize up, especially when power is interrupted and if you're not home for a few days this can result in oxygen deprivation. This I know from experience. I should qualify this by saying my experience is with Aquaclears but I'd still take the insurance by adding air stones.

My setup has an Eheim 2217 as the prefilter to a 2215 which contains Eheim biomedia. The HOB isn't used anymore. I also use a separate UV sterilzer coming off as the last stage. This being a little pricey in regard to your situation, if you can find a good used 2215 I'd run it in conjunction with the 2217. The 2217 would contain the ceremic noodles, pads, and filter floss and would flow into the 2215 setup as indicated above.

When cleaning, ALWAYS make sure the 2215 is running before turning the 2217 back on or the pressure from the 2217 will pop the clips for the 2215 resulting in a pressurized flood, this is a must.

As indicated by everyone successfully keeping Discus; mucho water changes. This forum has great advice for all levels; beginner and more experienced.

[nevertooold]

Stu, you mentioned using river sand in your aquariums. Are you not concerned about pollutants or heavy metals that may have precipitated out into the sand from the river. I live near the Fraser River and there is lots of sand there, but I would be very cautious about using it. I have be told not to use collected driftwood, but I am sure the sand would hold the same contaminants as the wood. Do you process the sand in some manner to make it useable?

[DISCUS STU]

Stu, you mentioned using river sand in your aquariums. Are you not concerned about pollutants or heavy metals that may have precipitated out into the sand from the river. I live near the Fraser River and there is lots of sand there, but I would be very cautious about using it. I have be told not to use collected driftwood, but I am sure the sand would hold the same contaminants as the wood. Do you process the sand in some manner to make it useable?

It's a point well taken and was originally a concern of mine. The guy that originally turned me on to this was using sand from the Passaic River in a 150 gal. tank planted full of wild discus that included branches he found from the river. The water was a brownish color from the branches. He was also a great commercial breeder. The Passaic River had been well known for pollutants decades before. His advice to me was to wash the sand in hot water and I have the many years I've been keeping Discus in Hudson River sand which is far down stream from any source of what had been pollutants decades ago. To date I haven't seen any issues with this.

These are and should be concerns. The dechlorination agents are also supposed to act on various heavy metals. That having been said, things are rarely 100% perfect. Does the sand form a public beach also present a health hazard to swimmers and sunbathers? If river sand seems like an issue you may want to try lake sand which may present less of an issue. Others recommend fine grade silica industrial sand which is much finer than natural sand, wouldn't permit much of anything harmful in regard to waste and bacteria to penetrate below it's surface, and is commercially available from places like pool companies. This may be a better way to go if someone has concerns about contaminants. Gravel still isn't a good option.

[nevertooold]

I was really just wondering how you prepared you sand. I'm old and cheap. If I can use sand from the river that will leave me more money to spend on Discus. There is no way to remove every risk factor but if I can tap into the wealth of experience on this forum, I'll be way ahead. Think I'll be taking a walk along the river with a big pail!

[nevertooold]

I am also wondering about UV sterilizers. A couple of members have mentioned them, so I have done a little looking. There seem to be a number of types, in line, in tank etc. Is there one kind, or one brand that is best. What exactly is the benefit of using this, and does the benefit outweigh the cost? Would appreciate input from anyone with an opinion, positive or negative.

[strawberryblonde]

Hiyas Never,

Gosh I haven't posted on Simply for ages and ages, but your post caught my eye because I was in your position just a few years ago (feels like forever ago to me now).

I started out with the idea that my discus just had to have some substrate and driftwood, with a few low light plants in order for them to be happy. I blew off the idea of a barebottom tank because, to me, it was too barren and had no fun places for the fish to hang out.

Annnnd, I managed to keep up with massive daily water changes (accompanied by plenty of muttering and a few screeches when things went pear shaped and water and/or gravel ended up going everywhere BUT in the tank. For the first 3 months I slowly removed all the "problem" plants, the "problem" driftwood and finally the "problem" substrate. I went to sand and one big piece driftwood stump. I was sure this would solve the issue of constant vacuuming and always finding more bits of crud floating around the bottom.

Sadly, I had to keep cleaning, and keep cleaning and my piggie little discus just kept making a big mess.

So I painted the bottom and back of my larger tank and moved them into it with just two potted plants. And oh my gosh, what a difference! I still had to change a lot of water, but no longer had to spend a solid twenty minutes vacuuming and siphoning out crud! I was much happier and more relaxed and my discus didn't notice the lack of decor one bit.

And that's when I realized that the discus I purchased (domestically bred and raised in bare bottom tanks) had never been in a river and wouldn't have a clue what a natural environment was if it jumped out and hollered at them.

I was probably stressing them out more by adding all that extra stuff to the tank. LOL

So nowadays I always recommend making things as simple and clean as possible when you're raising young discus and/or are new to the hobby. Discus are still growing for about the first 18 months of life and since they grow quite large, they need all the advantages (super clean tank, lots of fresh water and many small feeidngs of high protein foods) you can give them.

Once they reach 18 months of age, then you can scale back a little bit on the water changes, change up the tank and add substrate plus some nice plants and driftwood and they'll be just fine.

Someone else mentioned using potted plants and I love them too! I make "squishy" pots by filling a doubled piece of nylon pantyhose with sand, adding the plant and then using a rubberband to lightly close the top of the nylon baggy around the base of the plant (above the root system). The squishy pots are easy to move around as you clean and easy to remove and "repot" as the plant grows. I love all types of sword plants and even had success with some crypts.

You can paint the bottom of the tank with plain old white paint (on the outside of course) or get fancy and use one of the sanded spray paints in order to create a sand affect.

Hope some of this helps.
Toni

[DISCUS STU]

I am also wondering about UV sterilizers. A couple of members have mentioned them, so I have done a little looking. There seem to be a number of types, in line, in tank etc. Is there one kind, or one brand that is best. What exactly is the benefit of using this, and does the benefit outweigh the cost? Would appreciate input from anyone with an opinion, positive or negative.

I use a TurboTwist 3x but there are others. This one is pretty economical. I'd do a search on this forum for "UV sterilizer" or maybe just, "sterilizer".

Fortunately, after the initial cost of the unit the bulbs are much less expensive than they use to be and can be sourced from a number of different bulb specialty sites.

[nevertooold]

Everyone has been great, giving freely of their time and advice. I guess before I put a single Discus in my tank I need to know that I will be able to commit the time needed to care for them properly. So with that in mind, lets assume I have my tank all set up (90 gallons) sand substrate, large piece of driftwood and a couple of rocks. An Eheim 2217 canister filter and an Aqua Clear 110 HOB, a Turbo Twist UV Sterilizer, air pump with air stone, no plants, 6 4" Discus and 2 bristle nose plecos . What am I missing, if anything and what would be a reasonable maintenance schedule for this tank, and time commitment to do it properly. My concern is that because of my age, the fact that I work full time at a physically demanding job (work on a broiler breeder farm/producing hatching eggs) and have 7 messy parrots already in my home I might not have the energy or time to do this. The theme I pick up in all the advice is that keeping these fish requires a large time commitment, so I am beginning to wonder if it would be best to choose a different fish for my tank. I really love the look of the Discus, but would hate to kill a bunch of fish because my vanity won't let me accept my limitations. So what do you think guys/gals? Do any of you have busy, hectic lives and still manage to do a good job with your Discus.

[nevertooold]

Oops, forgot to mention that the tank will have 2 - 250 Watt titanium submersible heaters, gotta keep the kids warm

[discuspaul]

You seem to have carefully considered doing the right things to succeed. Your tank is large, with all the right equipment, the décor is minimalist - that's great - and you certainly will be under-stocked with livestock - all good. So, bottom line is, you shouldn't have much to worry about.
Assuming you get discus of no less than 4" in size (preferably a bit larger), then you ought to be able to get by with 2 or 3 fairly large water changes per week - try for 50% each time if you can. And do a good tank cleansing & substrate vacuum each time you do a w/c.
Go with that and you should be just fine.

[DISCUS STU]

I agree, sounds right. Understocking should work especially if you're buying slightly larger fish. A UV sterilizer also goes a long way for water quality. Keeping these fish isn't as daunting, yes I typed daunting, as it may come across but there's definitely and Do's and Don't list. Give it a shot.

For beginners the hardier strains are Pigeon Bloods and Red or Blue Turquoise. Both look great full grown while sacrificing nothing in the aesthetics dept.

[nevertooold]

You guys are great. I was considering painting the back of my tank black, will that be a problem with Pigeon Bloods peppering?(sounds like a bad thing from reading) I know nothing about types, names often don't seem to match the pictures. Any reading suggestions so that I can learn to recognize the different Discus? Saw a picture where the fish was identified as a yellow pigeon, sure liked the look of that discus. It's hard enough deciding how to set up a tank, have no idea how I will ever choose fish, OMG!