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Thread: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

  1. #31
    Registered Member Driftwood Mike's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

    Thanks, Al, John & all the others here on SD for all the great info, I only started in September, both thanks to all your shared experiences, I still have all 4 plus two more one of which is a rescue. I know it saved me and a lot of others from making mistakes that lead to people giving up. Thank you all!

  2. #32
    Registered Member nc0gnet0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

    Pros vs Cons of beefheart
    First and foremost, I am making the assumption that the reason your asking this question is you want to grow out big, healthy, robust discus with healthy immune systems? To that end, the ONE most important FACT, regardless of what you feed, is clean water, lots of it. When in doubt do another large water change. I am not talking about your once a day 50% routine here, but two times a day at levels of at least 80%. Of course, if you use large, lightly stocked tanks, you can cheat this a bit, but if you look at the larger hatcheries, they all have the fish crammed in like sardines. Here, 3x a day water changes are routine. There is a reason they do it this way, economics is one, but higher stocking densities encourage aggressive eating habits, and eliminates pecking order problems. The result is a more uniform size between all the siblings.

    Doing things this way does introduce a large element of risk, Your biggest obstacle is going to be human nature. There will be days that you just don't have the motivation, or feel you don't have the time to do these water changes. Skip a few Water changes and things go catastrophic in a hurry. If you don't have the wherewithal to adhere to this schedule, then your better off following the lower stocking density 50 % water change schedule.

    What you feed, while important, is a distant second in importance to water quality. Tell yourself this over and over. Then do it again. And again. I cannot stress this enough. It's easy to dump massive amounts of food into your tanks, thinking doing so will insure good results. And it's easy to do. It won't work, and could actually kill your fish, without first understanding how water quality and discus health coincide.

    Myself, I don't feed beef heart. Personally I think beefheart, by itself, is only a so-so food. Even more important, I think the commercially made beefheart cubes that you can buy are absolute crap. Overpriced and of only a marginal quality IMHO.

    What John and many others feed is actually a beefheart MIX. Beefheart plus salmon, plus perhaps some flakes, liquid vitamins, maybe some garlic and veggies, maybe some prawn. Now, this, when prepared correctly, is an excellent food. It will foul the water quickly though, so remember what we first talked about. If your willing to go the extra mile and make your own food, this is indeed a viable option. And a complete food.

    That's not to be said it is necessary. Quite the contrary. I feed my discus a combination of Al's FDBW's, some high protein flake, and a squid based pellet. With the flake and pellet I on occasion switch things up a bit. I sell a lot of my fish, and I like them to be used to taking a combination of foods, not knowing what the end user might be feeding. My fish grow to 6+" just fine.

    So, to sum it up, there is know one way to go about What you feed, however, there is one constant........clean water and lots of it.

    -Rick
    Last edited by nc0gnet0; 03-15-2015 at 03:18 PM.
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  3. #33
    Registered Member blueluv's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

    Quote Originally Posted by nc0gnet0 View Post
    First and foremost, I am making the assumption that the reason your asking this question is you want to grow out big, healthy, robust discus with healthy immune systems? To that end, the ONE most important FACT, regardless of what you feed, is clean water, lots of it. When in doubt do another large water change. I am not talking about your once a day 50% routine here, but two times a day at levels of at least 80%. Of course, if you use large, lightly stocked tanks, you can cheat this a bit, but if you look at the larger hatcheries, they all have the fish crammed in like sardines. Here, 3x a day water changes are routine. There is a reason they do it this way, economics is one, but higher stocking densities encourage aggressive eating habits, and eliminates pecking order problems. The result is a more uniform size between all the siblings.

    Doing things this way does introduce a large element of risk, Your biggest obstacle is going to be human nature. There will be days that you just don't have the motivation, or feel you don't have the time to do these water changes. Skip a few Water changes and things go catastrophic in a hurry. If you don't have the wherewithal to adhere to this schedule, then your better off following the lower stocking density 50 % water change schedule.

    What you feed, while important, is a distant second in importance to water quality. Tell yourself this over and over. Then do it again. And again. I cannot stress this enough. It's easy to dump massive amounts of food into your tanks, thinking doing so will insure good results. And it's easy to do. It won't work, and could actually kill your fish, without first understanding how water quality and discus health coincide.

    Myself, I don't feed beef heart. Personally I think beefheart, by itself, is only a so-so food. Even more important, I think the commercially made beefheart cubes that you can buy are absolute crap. Overpriced and of only a marginal quality IMHO.

    What John and many others feed is actually a beefheart MIX. Beefheart plus salmon, plus perhaps some flakes, liquid vitamins, maybe some garlic and veggies, maybe some prawn. Now, this, when prepared correctly, is an excellent food. It will foul the water quickly though, so remember what we first talked about. If your willing to go the extra mile and make your own food, this is indeed a viable option. And a complete food.

    That's not to be said it is necessary. Quite the contrary. I feed my discus a combination of Al's FDBW's, some high protein flake, and a squid based pellet. With the flake and pellet I on occasion switch things up a bit. I sell a lot of my fish, and I like them to be used to taking a combination of foods, not knowing what the end user might be feeding. My fish grow to 6+" just fine.

    So, to sum it up, there is know one way to go about What you feed, however, there is one constant........clean water and lots of it.

    -Rick
    Well said Rick. This makes sense to me. What do you feed your discus in th morning?

  4. #34
    Registered Member emu1sive's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

    Rick

    This is an amazing explanation. I appreciate your enthusiasm and the time you took to put this together. I agree with you so much on every level of this.

    Since posting this topic which was quite some time ago I began to do the following:

    I feed BH now only right before a w/c. Other than that I feed the FDBW I got from the sponsors here and Cobalt discus flakes and some hikari pellets.
    My 55 Gallon Discus Tank

    http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?119111-Emu1sive-s-55-Build-What-I-Have-Learned!

  5. #35
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    Default Re: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

    Al, would you mind sharing with us what you do feed with these days then?

  6. #36
    Administrator brewmaster15's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

    Quote Originally Posted by Tres View Post
    Al, would you mind sharing with us what you do feed with these days then?
    Hi Tres,
    Be happy to.. I feed Freeze Dried Australian Blackworms probably 80%+ of the time and I mix it up with other foods the rest.. usually I have a BH Mix and Seafood mix in the freezer. As its getting warmer now, I'll start feeding red wigglers ( Compost worms.) again. I've been doing this now the last few years. I feed my current tank of Adults 2 X a day and they are 3 plus years old and perpetually spawning.

    Disclaimer, I sell the Freeze Dried Australian Blackworms and personally love them...so take that with a large grain of salt. I am also not currently growing out fry... If I was, I would feed more often and probably mix it up a little more . I'd also be doing a lot more water changes for the fry.

    Feeding strategies need to take into account what your goals are and what your tank maintenance is , I think Rick Nailed it on all points.

    HTH,
    al
    Last edited by brewmaster15; 04-04-2015 at 10:20 AM.
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  7. #37
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    Default Re: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

    So where are the baby's? Jeff

  8. #38
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    Lightbulb Re: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

    I have tumbnail size 12 discus babies and they are eating beef heart mix(beef heart and garlic mix).should i continue giving them mix or some other food like tetra bites and hikari bio gold?

  9. #39
    Registered Member warblad79's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy k View Post
    I have tumbnail size 12 discus babies and they are eating beef heart mix(beef heart and garlic mix).should i continue giving them mix or some other food like tetra bites and hikari bio gold?
    I still feed mine with freshly hatch BBS and different variety of flakes on that size mainly beef heart mix flakes. I'm scared to feed them beef heart mix because it might be hard for them to digest.

  10. #40
    Registered Member MadMatt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

    Marc Weiss has a great video that speaks about what he feed his discus, he's not a fan of Beef Heart at all.
    Time to move on.

  11. #41
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    Default Re: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

    If you live near a rural area, there are guys that do "farm kill". They can get you lots of fresh beefheart. We slaughter a cow here once a year for the freezer and he leaves me the heart. Then I cut it into large chunks and freeze.

  12. #42
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    Question Re: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

    I've seen several recipes for beefheart mix, but relatively few preparation tips. How about chopping vs. grinding, fresh vs. frozen spinach, pros /cons of other ingredients (shrimp, liver, fish, binders, etc.), or tips for keeping the mix in one piece longer in the tank or fouling the water less?

    I can offer one tip to help keep a beefheart mix together without using gelatin: After I bag the beefheart mix and before I flatten it out, I slap the bagged mix down on the counter a few times to get out the air bubbles, flipping the bag each time sort of like preparing a sausage mix. This seems to help keep the chunks of beefheart together nicely.

    Can anyone else share some preparation tips?

  13. #43
    Registered Member rickztahone's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

    Quote Originally Posted by drummer305 View Post
    I've seen several recipes for beefheart mix, but relatively few preparation tips. How about chopping vs. grinding, fresh vs. frozen spinach, pros /cons of other ingredients (shrimp, liver, fish, binders, etc.), or tips for keeping the mix in one piece longer in the tank or fouling the water less?

    I can offer one tip to help keep a beefheart mix together without using gelatin: After I bag the beefheart mix and before I flatten it out, I slap the bagged mix down on the counter a few times to get out the air bubbles, flipping the bag each time sort of like preparing a sausage mix. This seems to help keep the chunks of beefheart together nicely.

    Can anyone else share some preparation tips?
    There are some good tips here in John's BH thread:
    http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showth...art&highlight=

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

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  14. #44
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    Default Re: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

    Try adding some Centrum vitamin in your BH.

    Cliff

  15. #45
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    Default Re: Pros vs Cons of beefheart

    Thanks, Cliff! Great link/thread!

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