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Thread: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

  1. #16
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    Default Re: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony13 View Post
    Thanks Paul, One other issue is I want different colored fish but cant seem to get all the colors from one place and then I would have the issue of mixing fish from different breeders or dealers which is not a good thing as i have red here.
    Tony
    One thing that I would recommend that you do NOT do is to buy your fish from your local fish store (LFS). They move fish in and out so much that I would NEVER consider taking the chance of getting fish that could contaminate my tanks. The SD forum has several good sponsors that can supply you with quality healthy fish. Two of them that I can highly recommend are Kennys and Hans. Be sure to QT all new arrivals for at least 4 weeks. Also, as a point of reference I have mixed Kennys and Hans fish together and have not experienced any problems doing so.

    Paul

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    Default Re: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

    Thanks Paul, i went up to Baltimore and saw hans's fish and then i saw kennys and Don who is a member on here and got me to get on the site has some really pretty reds. So I will probably get a few from each and grow them out.i will get a 10 gallon for quarantine and for emergencies.

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    Default Re: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony13 View Post
    Thanks Paul, i went up to Baltimore and saw hans's fish and then i saw kennys and Don who is a member on here and got me to get on the site has some really pretty reds. So I will probably get a few from each and grow them out.i will get a 10 gallon for quarantine and for emergencies.
    Quarantine is not only for sick discus, but for incoming discus. Even if you trust your source, make sure you QT any incoming discus from your current group.

    Click here to view my 75g Acrylic Tank w/ Bean Animal Overflow with 40g Sump Thread

    Also, click here for my 25 group of discus grow out thread


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  4. #19
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    Default Re: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

    Quote Originally Posted by rickztahone View Post
    Quarantine is not only for sick discus, but for incoming discus. Even if you trust your source, make sure you QT any incoming discus from your current group.
    Good point Rick. After rereading my post, I can understand how someone could misinterpret my statement. Thanks for the clarification.

  5. #20
    Administrator and MVP Dec.2015 Second Hand Pat's Avatar
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    Default Re: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony13 View Post
    Thanks Paul, i went up to Baltimore and saw hans's fish and then i saw kennys and Don who is a member on here and got me to get on the site has some really pretty reds. So I will probably get a few from each and grow them out.i will get a 10 gallon for quarantine and for emergencies.
    Also a 10 gallon is too small for discus. Do at least a 20 but a 40 is better for a QT.
    Your discus are talking to you....are you listening


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    Default Re: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

    Good point i will get one on the next dollar a gallon sale

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    Default Re: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

    IS there a way to know what is the bio load in the tank like we do whit ammonia ?



    Quote Originally Posted by afriend View Post
    Many people who are new to keeping discus assume that since the water parameters (Ph, TDS, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate) are all normal, and the water appears crystal clear, they make the mistake of thinking that the water is healthy. It may be for some other types of fish, but not discus unless the water is also biologically clean. How to keep the water biologically clean, and why this is critical for healthy discus is the purpose of this post.

    Assuming that the tank has a well established bio-filter (which maintains ammonia, and nitrite levels at zero), the next most important water quality consideration is bioload and biomass resulting from food fed to the fish. Food contains organic compounds that are not toxic

    The recommendations I give in this post are mine alone. In some instances there is considerable differences on the SD Forum as to what these recommendations should be.

    What Is Bioload and Biomass and How To Control Them

    Bioload and biomass are affected greatly by the type of food and how it is fed to the fish. Food such as beef heart mix and unrinsed blood worms (and others) contribute more organic compounds than freeze dried or flake foods. When feeding the fish, do not overfeed and feed them more often with a little at a time, so that more of the food is actually eaten by the fish.

    Bioload and biomass both result from food placed in the tank. The fish eat a portion of the food and the remaining part either falls to the bottom of the tank, or becomes suspended or dissolved in the water column. The portion eaten by the fish is partly decomposed by the digestive tract of the fish and is eliminited as feces. The bioload/biomass exists in several forms: uneaten food and feces, suspended/dissolved organic material in the water column, food and feces existing in the substrate, and food that collects on all surfaces in the tank. These are controlled by water changes or by syphoning material from the tank bottom.

    Uneaten Food and Feces-- Feces contains food that is not completely decomposed and this usually collects with uneaten food on the bottom of the tank. If this material is neglected, it will collect into a very large biomass which will permit pathogens to multiply greatly as they feed on it. As further decomposition takes place, other undesirable compounds will be produced, and these will remain at the bottom or become suspended in the water column. The fish will ingest some of these pathogens when they feed at the bottom. Control of this is accomplished with tank maintenance by syphoning the bottom and this should be done on a regular basis. For adult discus, my recommendation is no less than twice a week. Juveniles require more frequent cleaning.

    Suspended or Dissolved Organic Compounds-- These organic compounds exist in the water column as bioload. They originate from uneaten food and feces containing partially decomposed food, which is suspended or dissolved in the water column. Some of these organic compounds decompose in the water column. Water circulation transports this bioload to the substrate (it one exists) and to all other surfaces with in the tank including the walls, bottom, and anything else in the tank. Control of these organic compounds in the water column is accomplished with water exchange. My recommendation is not less than 30% daily for adults and greater amounts for juveniles.

    Gravel or Sand Substrate-- Uneaten food and feces becomes trapped in gravel and this can accumulate into a huge biomass, even if one attempts to clean it regularly. Thats because much of the organic material will stick to the gravel thus making it impossible to remove it without also removing the gravel. Aslo, water circulation can be blocked in the gravel thus depriving the flow of oxygen which will stop the process of decomposition and this can result in even bigger problems. Thus my recommendation is to avoid gravel substrate completely. Sand is a better substrate than gravel because feces and food are less likely to become trapped. However the sand at the top still collects a biomass because food suspended in the water column will stick to the sand particles at the top and thus collect to form a biomass. This biomass will remain in the tank unless the sand is also removed. For these reasons, my recommendation is to go with a bare bottom tank, especially for anyone just beginning. A bare bottom tank is not only much cleaner, but also much easier to clean.

    Food Collecting on All Surfaces in the Tank-- Another form of biomass occurs when suspended organic material in the water column collects on everything in the tank including walls, bottom, decorative items (artificial plants, rocks, etc..) and everything else in the tank. This form of biomass is different than gravel substrate because water circulation is available to allow the organic material to decompose. Control of this biomass is accomplished by removing the decorative items and cleaning them outside the tank, and then wiping the sides and bottom of the tank clean. This loosens the biomass and places it in suspension where water changes remove it from the tank. A pretty good test for assessing this biomass on decorative items is what I call the "sniff" test. Remove the item from the tank and place it close to the nose, a biomass will exhibit a foul odor. This test can be used as a pretty good indication of how often it should be cleaned. My recommendation for cleaning decorative items is to place them in a bucket and add a 8 to 1 mixture of water and hydrogen peroxide (3%). Hydrogen peroxide can be purchased in the Wal-mart pharmacy for under $1 per quart. It is non toxic and can be rinsed off after letting it set overnight in the bucket. Does a wonderful job of removing algae. My recommendation is to clean this form of biomass not less ten days for adult discus, and more often for juveniles.

    Why Discus Require Biologically Clean Water

    Many of the strains of discus available today have evolved in water with a low Ph for thousands of years. As such their immune systems have adapted to the quantity and types of pathogens (bacteria, viruses, and parasites) that are common to their native habitat. It turns out that water with higher Ph has not only many more pathogens, but also a different type. Thus the fish are much more sensitive to attack from unfamiliar pathogens. Young discus are especially vulnerable because the immune system adapts somewhat as they age. This is a very serious problem to the extent that many discus keepers recommend that fish from different suppliers should not be mixed due to the possibility that bacteria from one supplier will be harmful to discus from a different supplier, even though they are not harmful to the first.

    Another important consideration results because discus are quite sensitive and become easily stressed. Stress can be caused by changes in water parameters (Ph, TDS, ammonia, nitrite, and nitrate), temperature, lighting, motion outside the tank, pecking order, and other factors. Water that is not biologically clean also causes stress. In fact, whenever I notice that my fish are not acting normal, the first thing I do is to suspect something wrong with the water and immediately make a water change. The amount of aggression occurring between the fish can also be a sign of stress. My experience has shown that when I get all of the tank conditions correct and stabilized, that the aggression due to the pecking order is greatly reduced. When discus become stressed, they often become lethargic and refuse to eat. When this happens, their immune system becomes weakened and they are much more subject to attack from pathogens.

  8. #23
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    Default Re: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

    There is a method used in microbiology to measure the number of bacteria per ml of water, called Heterotrophic Plate Count. Its a lab technique beyond the scope of the hobbyist, but it would be nice to use this method to test the benefit of purigen, to see if the DOC's collected in the beads are sequestered from bacterial decomposition.

  9. #24
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    Default Re: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

    Quote Originally Posted by Homes770 View Post
    IS there a way to know what is the bio load in the tank like we do whit ammonia ?
    As mentioned above, it's not an easy measurement for the home hobbyist. However, there are indirect indications. Remove something that has been in the tank for awhile and give it the "sniff test" by holding it close to your nose. Decomposition (resulting from biomass) will result in a foul odor.

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    Default Re: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

    Quote Originally Posted by Nemonic View Post
    There is a method used in microbiology to measure the number of bacteria per ml of water, called Heterotrophic Plate Count. Its a lab technique beyond the scope of the hobbyist, but it would be nice to use this method to test the benefit of purigen, to see if the DOC's collected in the beads are sequestered from bacterial decomposition.
    Your question regarding purigen and decomposition is an important one. SeaChem has a discussion board where people can pose questions about their products. They have professionals answer that are technically qualified in various fields of expertise. I recently posed this question to them, and the answer is that organic compounds absorbed by purigen do NOT decompose. I was pretty sure that this was the case because used purigen does not have a foul odor. What amazes me about purigen is the ability of the product to quickly absorb huge amounts of organic compounds in both suspended and dissolved forms. Since organic compounds play a very significant role in the health of discus, I believe that purigen will be used by an increasing number of people as they discover the benefits of the product.

    On the subject of bacteria, one thing that I have done is to look at pathogens with the use of a microscope. Even though the water is crystal clear, it's amazing how much microscopic life exists in the water. Of course, not all of it is harmful.

    Paul
    Last edited by afriend; 10-14-2015 at 03:05 PM.

  11. #26
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    Default Re: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

    Paul, I'm glad that you asked the Seachem technicians that question, it is a question that I have had as well. Fewer bio-decomposable compounds loose in the water means less biofilm and less feed for existing biofilm, which should directly improve the fishes exposure to bacteria. Pathogenic bacteria normally make up a very small portion of the overall population, but when present they tend to colonize existing biofilms, even though those biofilms are typically made up of relatively harmless bacteria.

    I have spent many hundreds of hours looking at microbes through a scope, and I'm always amazed by the huge numbers of them that are buzzing around on all the surfaces in fish tanks, ponds and creeks.

  12. #27
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    Default Re: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

    I found this article very helpful. Bio mass is one thing I had not heard of.

    Richard

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    Default Re: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

    Sand is a better substrate than gravel because feces and food are less likely to become trapped. However the sand at the top still collects a biomass because food suspended in the water column will stick to the sand particles at the top and thus collect to form a biomass.

    If food collects on the sand and causes a bio-load as you say, i would assume it will also happen on glass at the bottom of your tank. I know this is an old thread but i just have to say a bit of this logic is failed and faulty. Also when i clean my sand i usually vacuum up a bit of sand, leaving my bottom cleaner than a bare bottom tank. Unless your speaking facts it's all speculative, logic can be bent in many ways my friend.

  14. #29
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    Default Re: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

    Every time I do a water change, I wipe down the insides of the tank, including the bare bottom. Then I vacuum it as I drain the tank. I would think the bottom ends up cleaner than what you can achieve cleaning sand.
    Last edited by RogueDiscus; 03-17-2018 at 07:26 PM.

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    Default Re: What Are Bioload and Biomass and Why They Are Important

    You think, I think, which is my point Rogue. I'm not saying I'm right ok, I'm saying we are talking according to our logic and what we believe to be true. However we could be wrong. If i take the top layer of my sand off, what males your bare bottom cleaner, that means I removed a layer of sand and left a clean bottom that has all dirt removed even part of the substrate. I'm just saying don't present your opinion as fact, it is what it is an opinion.

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