Growing out in a planted tank - my 120g project

[strawberryblonde]

Just as a comparison, I went and dug up a pic of the golden sunshine along side one of the snakeskins from 3 weeks ago.

2015-10-06-01.05.jpg

I should have added it to the original post today to show more clearly just how big the growth spurt has been this month.

[strawberryblonde]

yeah, the orange bulge....so that comes w/ age...thanks.

Yep, the bulge comes with age, but the orange color is his own "special" thing. LOL

He was sent to me as a Golden Sunshine. They have a mottled appearance, white and orange on a yellow background. But this guy decided he didn't want to be a spotty yellow fish. So the only orange is on his nose and he's pale pink instead of yellow. He often gets mistaken for a silver pigeon, but the orange nose is a dead giveaway that he's not a silver.

[pastry]

LOL, she's IN the sword plant Elliot! She and one of the leopards, plus the yellow checkerboard all head in there to find leftover blackworms after every feeding. And that thing is so big and dense that I have a hard time spotting them at all!

...and how do you know it's a she?

[strawberryblonde]

Ohhhh, well, because she's already laid several clutches of eggs and the last 2 went free swimming. But that was over a month ago and since then she's been totally ignoring the GS in favor of eating out of the sword plant. LOL

[pastry]

That's because she's still waiting on you to buy here a big brown-based red stud . And me and her know you have the tank space!

[Siddhartha Saive]

90% wc every day
I'm sure your discus will turn out great Toni They already look amazing.
One suggestion I'd like to give is you don't need to use gravel for the plants. You can grow any plant in sand just fine.. even most of the high tech plants with enough CO2 and EI fertiliser dosing.
Changing so much water frequently is good for the plants too as it brings in dissolved CO2 in the fresh water. So you don't need CO2 dosing... but need to dose ferts for better growth. I'm sure your discus will do fine with low tech EI dosing (at 1/3rd or 1/4th of recommened dose for your tank size per week) but you need to dose that amount daily since you change so much water everyday. You can look into using DIY fertilisers instead of branded ones( at least 10 x cheaper)

I use sand in all my planted tanks. I never vacum the substrate.
Use a thick layer of sand.. 2.5" minimum as this depth is necessary for plants to root properly and it looks better
All the detritus will only collect on top of the fine sand and nothing seeps into it( unlike coarse gravel... waste gets into it and is a pain in the a** to clean). You will never need to clean the sand.
Have enough flow in the tank (or aim your flow towards the sand) so that this detritus doesn't settle on the sand and stays in the water column. This will then be removed from the water by your filter... sump or canister or HOB etc.. if you have a big enough filter you will only need to clean them occasionally... since you change so much water daily.

[strawberryblonde]

One suggestion I'd like to give is you don't need to use gravel for the plants. You can grow any plant in sand just fine.. even most of the high tech plants with enough CO2 and EI fertiliser dosing.
Changing so much water frequently is good for the plants too as it brings in dissolved CO2 in the fresh water. So you don't need CO2 dosing... but need to dose ferts for better growth. I'm sure your discus will do fine with low tech EI dosing (at 1/3rd or 1/4th of recommened dose for your tank size per week) but you need to dose that amount daily since you change so much water everyday. You can look into using DIY fertilisers instead of branded ones( at least 10 x cheaper)

I use sand in all my planted tanks. I never vacum the substrate.
Use a thick layer of sand.. 2.5" minimum as this depth is necessary for plants to root properly and it looks better
All the detritus will only collect on top of the fine sand and nothing seeps into it( unlike coarse gravel... waste gets into it and is a pain in the a** to clean). You will never need to clean the sand.
Have enough flow in the tank (or aim your flow towards the sand) so that this detritus doesn't settle on the sand and stays in the water column. This will then be removed from the water by your filter... sump or canister or HOB etc.. if you have a big enough filter you will only need to clean them occasionally... since you change so much water daily.

Thanks for the ideas. I'm not sure why you thought I have a gravel substrate, but it's sand. The only gravel in the tank is in the squishy pots and that's because it's easier to manipulate than sand in those pots.

Your suggestions for growing plants is great, I just have no interest in growing plants. =)

My discus come first and the plants were just a challenge for me to see if I could grow discus in a lightly planted tank with a sand substrate. I do enjoy sword plants, but beyond that, plants are just a big pita to me.LOL

Ohhhhhh, I should also mention that I tried deep sand and plants once - just once. This tank is 32" tall, which means that I can't reach the bottom. So, I used plant anchors to try to made it easier to get them to stay firmly planted till their root systems took hold. And every day I'd be chest deep in the water replanting the ones that my cories and discus uprooted during the night. It was maddening and I don't do maddening very well. I like it simple, clean and as easy as possible. If this was a standard tank (longer than it is tall) I might try it again with something other than discus, but it's not, so that will never happen.

[Siddhartha Saive]

Your suggestions for growing plants is great, I just have no interest in growing plants. =)

Enough said lol

I was trying to say you could do with much less maintenance than what you are doing currently(weekly scrub down? I'd never even dream of doin it ).. even if you want to try a fully planted tank in the future.

You sure do love your discus to put in so much effort. Bravo

[strawberryblonde]

LOL, I am a bit of a discus fanatic! But then again, once I saw the results of growing them out in optimal conditions I couldn't imagine doing it any other way.

And I swear that one of these days I'm going to take pics of my tank just before my weekly scrub down and then pics after I do the scrub and before I siphon out all the crud. Because I do a thorough siphon job on my tank every day during my 90% WC's and my tank looks spotless all week long. You'd never dream that there's a ton of crud hidden in it! Till I do the scrub down that is.

I drain about a foot of water out, turn off the siphon and then scrub the bottom, stir the sand, remove the sponge filters and heater to clean them, take out the driftwood and then scrub the sides down. And the water is GROSS! It's full of floating gunk. I then let it all sit for 15 minutes till it settles onto the bottom, then siphon it out and continue with the water change.

So why do I do it this way? (I do this even when I have a bare bottom tank with no plants)

Because you can grow discus from these little 4" guys:

IMG_1213.jpg

To this - in just 18 months:

IMG_3614.jpg

IMG_3618.jpg

IMG_3626.jpg

IMG_4146.jpg

[Skip]

So why do I do it this way? (I do this even when I have a bare bottom tank with no plants)

Because you can grow discus from these little 4" guys:

IMG_1213.jpg

To this - in just 18 months:

IMG_3614.jpg

IMG_3618.jpg

IMG_3626.jpg

IMG_4146.jpg

YET PEOPLE STILL WANT TO DO IT OTHER WAYS!! Smh

[strawberryblonde]

Yep Skip, and I'm actually doing it another way this time around, but with lots of experience and dedication to clean water. And this is the ONLY time I'll ever grow out discus with plants - ugh!!! LOL

I actually had to grin and roll my eyes when I saw that first pic of my little 4" stendkers from so many years ago. Plants and sand in that tiny little tank - what WAS I thinking???

Thank goodness I came to my senses and yanked it all out of there, huh? It was pretty, but goodness, trying to do 2 daily water changes with all that stuff in there was such a pain in the butt.

[rickztahone]

Toni, as you know I commented on another thread about your huge amazon covering the sponge filter. May I make a suggestion? I hope I'm not being too presumptuous in the suggestion, but have you considered using the black air line tubing? That would blend so well with your background and it is actually a little more rigid and you can use the little suction cups and pin it to the back. They would basically dissapear in your tank. Just a friendly suggestion

Your measurement pics are awesome. I hope to get at least 1x 8"+ discus out of my group

[strawberryblonde]

Toni, as you know I commented on another thread about your huge amazon covering the sponge filter. May I make a suggestion? I hope I'm not being too presumptuous in the suggestion, but have you considered using the black air line tubing? That would blend so well with your background and it is actually a little more rigid and you can use the little suction cups and pin it to the back. They would basically dissapear in your tank. Just a friendly suggestion

Your measurement pics are awesome. I hope to get at least 1x 8"+ discus out of my group

YES!!! Every time I look at those air lines I think to myself that I really need to go order some black tubing. LOL

I had tons and tons of the clear stuff from back when the background was that pale greenish color and I'm too scottish to go buy new black tubing if I have perfectly good clear stuff. But yes, I totally agree that it would look a heck of a lot better. Oh and you aren't being presumptuous at all! =)

I've been watching your grow out thread and I'd bet that you'll get several 8"+ discus out of that group. You're doing an awesome job of raising them!

[rickztahone]

YES!!! Every time I look at those air lines I think to myself that I really need to go order some black tubing. LOL

I had tons and tons of the clear stuff from back when the background was that pale greenish color and I'm too scottish to go buy new black tubing if I have perfectly good clear stuff. But yes, I totally agree that it would look a heck of a lot better. Oh and you aren't being presumptuous at all! =)

I've been watching your grow out thread and I'd bet that you'll get several 8"+ discus out of that group. You're doing an awesome job of raising them!

Thanks Toni . Luckily for me I have a large(ish) group where I can cherry pick and sell off the rest. I can only imagine a tank full of 7 to 8" monsters!

You are doing a bang up job too Toni. I know we discourage many hobbyists from planted tanks, but it does that more skill than usual to do a planted tank and grow out some nice discus like you have here. Not anyone can do that. That is why I always say it isn't impossible, but it isn't easy to do it either.

[Siddhartha Saive]

So why do I do it this way? (I do this even when I have a bare bottom tank with no plants)

Because you can grow discus from these little 4" guys:

IMG_1213.jpg

To this - in just 18 months:

IMG_3614.jpg

IMG_3618.jpg

IMG_3626.jpg

IMG_4146.jpg

Woww. Those are absolutely stunning.
I'm upping my water changes now