I fed hormones to my fish. Outcome is amazing.

[walton321]

Hello folks. I think you may find this interesting. I always knew that alot of discus imported these days are artificially colored. Seems to me that many so-called "strains" are just juiced up versions of a base discus. I purchased some hormones in Asia over a decade ago but never had inclination to experiment with it. I've been out of the hobby for a long time. But now I'm back into it with a breeding pair of red discus. It was apparent that after a year of grow-out, the color of the red parents did not pass to their offspring. I took a few juveniles runts that had defects and fed them the hormone laced beefheart. I also bought an albino oscar just for the purpose of this experiment. As you can see below in the pictures, the outcome is pretty amazing. I've used color bits and astaxanthin powder in the past, but the only thing that turned red was my Aquaclear sponges. Seems like the only effective method to get bright colors is by using hormones.



Day 1, Day 10, 2 Months.


The control (before/after)

[FishFanMan]

Hey, they do that to the salmon I buy to eat. It's a nice orange color. Would I prefer they don't? Yes. Is it hormones or pigments? I doubt hormones have a shelf life of 10 years.

[pitdogg2]

Well whatever it was sure looks to of had a dramatic effect. A lot of those things in excess can cause all kinds of other problems like organ failure and blindness.

[JEP23]

Yea if that were true the worlds population of humans would be having chronic organ failures and blindness

[nc0gnet0]

given time to mature the fish on the left will color up.

[FishFanMan]

Why would you want to make those pretty yellow discus turn into those weird 2 tone variety?

[Filip]

given time to mature the fish on the left will color up.

Ive heard the same story.Growth hormones are most often given to young fish so that they can have the adult coloration much sooner than normal .At 4-5 months, when its time to sell them.
But given the time they will eventually aquire their genetic potential coloration,and that wold mean red as on third picture.
It affect overall fish health and breeding potential to some extent,i have no doubt in this.But how severe ? You cant tell.

[John_Nicholson]

In the long run it will normally screw your fish over. It is one of the reasons that some people think discus are hard to raise. They buy theirs from the LFG that are hormoned and their livers are already cooked. While they might recover from very minor exposure and long term or major exposure will end badly.

-john

[DISCUS STU]

Interesting that you would try this experiment but I'm not really sure why. Most people that are aware of this practice know that this will produce premature coloration in adolescent fish.

The affects I see in your fish are less dramatic than in most of the crappy Discus I see at some lfs's. Even so, historically hormone treating had it's place in developing Discus in the hobby. I had posted pictures and an article from a 1960 Tropical Fish Hobbyist Magazine were Dr. Eduard Scmidt-Focke, Discus pioneer, was able to get his wild caught Haraldi male to breed more effectively with the selective use of hormones. It was a great piece, but couldn't be posted here because of copyright considerations.

That aside, it's a despicable practice used by unscrupulous sellers to misrepresent their product, which are often sub par culls. The fish often suffer as a result as it very seriously affects their long term health, often makes them extremely aggressive even as juveniles, ultimately their colors fade, not to mentions other problems.

[walton321]

It is indeed an unscrupulous business practice. But unfortunately everyone is goo goo eye over wildly colored discus, and are willing to pay the higher price thinking they are new "strains". A term strain means genetic variety, but it is loosely used here, along with all the crazy names that sellers give to discus. In the end it drives up prices for everyone. The 4 affected fish are runts anyway. Some people would just kill them anyway. I take care of them just as good as I take care of the rest of the fish so they are living a good life. Alot more people make their fish suffer from diseases and lack of maintenance. I'm curious if anyone has been able to breed these red discus like mine, and offspring to have the same color when matured. I did it for awareness because it seems like hobbyists are turning a blind eye to it and breeders raking in more profits. But in any case this is ornamental fish trade whether one likes it or not.

[strawberryblonde]

Now I'm even more confused. At first I thought that you just didn't know that using hormones on your fish to produce vivid coloration is unscrupulous and harmful to the fish.

But in your last post you said that you DO know it, and that you choose to do it anyways because, if I'm reading that correctly "But in any case this is ornamental fish trade whether one likes it or not."

So are you planning to sell any of your hormone treated juvies? Is that what this is about? Are you looking for approval for what you're doing to you discus? Or maybe you thought that people would be thrilled to see that they can just feed hormone laced food to their discus in order to bring out bright red coloration?

Like I said, I'm confused by your posts and wondering what you hope to achieve by telling others that you are using hormones on your fish.

Oh and in case you're thinking that it's impossible to achieve bright red colors without the use of hormones or other color enhancing foods, here are pics of 3 of my discus. They were never fed any color enhancing additives at all:

IMG_8035.jpg

5-inches.jpg

IMG_4753.jpg

IMG_4757.jpg

2 of these discus produced offspring. None of the offspring were vividly colored for the first 4-5 months of life. By the 6 month they began to show strong red colors and as far as I know from the new owners of the offspring (The discus are now over 3 years old) the colors have never faded.

[John_Nicholson]

I see nothing wrong with doing experiments as long as the fish never leave your place. I once kept a couple of breeding pairs in 100% ro water for an extended time. I don't remember the exact time frame but somewhere between 12 and 24 months. By the end they were producing smaller ans smaller spawns with higher and higher rates of deformities. I simple culled all of the fry as the experiment went along. I wanted to see the effects of long term affects of really, really soft water would be. Experiments are how we figure things out.

-john

[John_Nicholson]

Oh and I have produced lots of fry out of Stendker reds that grew out to be jus as red as the parents. They were fed my beef heart mix.

-john

[walton321]

Yes this is an experiment to raise awareness. Those treated fish will be raise along with the untreated fish to see the long term affects. And since they are runts, they will be prevented from breeding. I do not plan to sell them as this is just a hobby. I only bought a few packets of this powder in a random fish store in when I visited Bangkok a long time ago, and I doubt they sell them openly anymore.

I'm also interested if anyone has breed the so-called Red Eagle or Rafflesia discus and what their offspring look like when matured. To me they just look like juiced up Checkerboard discus. Quite a price difference, and people are willing to pay the premium. Even within this "strain", the more color commands a higher grade/price. You can see why overseas exporters are creating these all these color variations. Whether it's true genetics or just a chemical enhancement, only the originator can confirm.

[pitdogg2]

I see nothing wrong with doing experiments as long as the fish never leave your place. I once kept a couple of breeding pairs in 100% ro water for an extended time. I don't remember the exact time frame but somewhere between 12 and 24 months. By the end they were producing smaller ans smaller spawns with higher and higher rates of deformities. I simple culled all of the fry as the experiment went along. I wanted to see the effects of long term affects of really, really soft water would be. Experiments are how we figure things out.

-john

well said John