ChicagoDiscus.com     Golden State Discus

View Poll Results: How would you rate the growth rate of these fry on a scale of 1-10?

Voters
13. You may not vote on this poll
  • 1

    0 0%
  • 2

    0 0%
  • 3

    1 7.69%
  • 4

    0 0%
  • 5

    0 0%
  • 6

    1 7.69%
  • 7

    1 7.69%
  • 8

    3 23.08%
  • 9

    0 0%
  • 10

    7 53.85%
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 57

Thread: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

  1. #31
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    225
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Filip View Post
    Im sure you allready have watched this video , as its been for a long time on net , but it serves the subject .
    Its a notorious- substrate planted and overstocked discus tank with next to zero WC and yet succesfull tank .
    The owner also like you swears on a refugium as a perfect filtration for long term succes in keepin Discus with almost no WC .

    Both of your stories are almost "to good to be true" and it makes me wonder why refugiums and algae scrubbers arent allready widespread practice for filtration .

    Here is the link:



    I saw this a while back also and it among other things motivated me to do this trial. The principals probably remain about the same with a variety of methods like this. use natural plants / algae to filter the water.

    Either way, it seems pretty evident you could use a similar system to provide better water conditions and healthier fish with less WC. Don't get me wrong, I love my discus just as much as anybody else and am willing to work for them (not really work, I enjoy it) but everybody's time is limited. If you can spend less time working on your tank and more time enjoying healthier discus. That's a win win right?

  2. #32
    Homesteader Filip's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Macedonia-Europe
    Posts
    3,639
    Real Name
    Filip

    Default Re: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

    I don't think that you need to top it off with Ro water, but rather tapwater,cause alge uses ca,mg,k,po3,kno3 and all other minerals from the tap water to thrive and I think so does the discus.
    At least that's why people report better discus growing results in hard waters.
    This way you add traces and yet you use Ro to take them off,I think its counterproductive.
    That's just my opinion.

    On the refugiums and algae scrubbers, I just can't imagine how can such a small tank with such a small amount of algae/plants, do so much nitrate eating.
    But your experiment prove this to certain point IMO.
    Good info, and keep us posted.

  3. #33
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    225
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Filip View Post
    I don't think that you need to top it off with Ro water, but rather tapwater,cause alge uses ca,mg,k,po3,kno3 and all other minerals from the tap water to thrive and I think so does the discus.
    At least that's why people report better discus growing results in hard waters.
    This way you add traces and yet you use Ro to take them off,I think its counterproductive.
    That's just my opinion.

    On the refugiums and algae scrubbers, I just can't imagine how can such a small tank with such a small amount of algae/plants, do so much nitrate eating.
    But your experiment prove this to certain point IMO.
    Good info, and keep us posted.

    You could be right on the RO water. There is probably an optimal water change % and Algae Scrubber (or other plant filter) size combination that would offer the best results. IE: Healthy discus, cost and work. Something like a 10" algae scrubber combined with 15% biweekly water changes. A combination that would keep nitrates at 0 and maintain sufficient trace elements with more time to enjoy discus instead of working on the tank.

  4. #34
    Registered Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Davis, CA
    Posts
    97

    Default Re: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

    Luke - thnaks for taking the time to post what works for you and your experiences!

    Algae scrubbers and refugiums have been around for a while and work very well. Reef tanks with hard to care for corals that maintain near 0 nitrates almost always use macro-algaes or plants as part of a complete filtration system. The book "Ecology of the planted Aquarium" (by Walstad) covers the principals of how this is possible in a shorter version. Many of my tanks are in an atrium and every 2-3 days I scarp out a handful of algae, actually most of my water changes involve sucking up hair algae daily.

    Cheers,
    DC

  5. #35
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    225
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

    Good to know. I just ordered that book on amazon. Thanks!

  6. #36
    Registered Member bluelagoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Halifax,Canada
    Posts
    2,498
    Real Name
    Mervin

    Default Re: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

    I may have missed it,but did you get the adults to their potential size?They appear rather small in those pics.

  7. #37
    Registered Member nc0gnet0's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Grand Rapids, MI
    Posts
    8,054
    Real Name
    Rick

    Default Re: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

    Here is the thing I don't understand. To run a successful experiment, a lot more documentation is needed. I would have loved to follow this over the course of the 2 -3 months with an initial post on the setup, the amount of fish, etc etc. Then it would be followed up with weekly or bi-weekly updates. As it now stands, it makes for an interesting post, but fails the litmus test on a true experiment.

    Many questions are left unanswered

    How many fry did you start with? Did you lose or cull any?
    At what stage where they introduced into this setup?
    Could you pull a few juvies and set them on a tape measure?
    Can we see a full tank show, it's hard to tell, but there appears to be a large discrepancy in size amongst the small batch.

    When all is said and done, I am not sure exactly how this extrapolates into growing out a normal (read much larger) batch of fry. Not many of us on here that actively breed would bother with a batch of 9, most of us would need at least fifty, and prefer 150 to consider raising. Scalability of your setup is a huge concern.

    At any rate, I am a big fan of algae scrubbers, but don't see them as viable for fry/juvie growout.

    -Rick
    Ex-President-North American Discus Association-NADA
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  8. #38
    Registered Member dprais1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Mt. Prospect, Il
    Posts
    875
    Real Name
    Dan

    Default Re: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

    what was the cost involved in setting up the algae scrubber?

    -kudos for trying a different approach.

  9. #39
    Registered Member Jack L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    PA, USA
    Posts
    1,943

    Default Re: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke in Phoenix View Post
    LOL, I wish but my wife would probably leave me. Tough decision... just kidding!

    It's a 40 gallon breeder tank and an 80 gallon display tank both connected to a 20 gallon sump.
    so this is actually 140 gallon tank....since all the water is connected

  10. #40
    Registered Member Jack L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    PA, USA
    Posts
    1,943

    Default Re: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke in Phoenix View Post
    Other supportive filtration includes:
    - 2 UV Sterilizers
    - 2 Filter socks
    - Large Eheim 2076 canister filter

    This is a pic of the current setup as of today. The canister filter and one of the UV Sterilizers had to be placed beside the stand because of space.
    Attachment 91619


    For the next phase, I've placed 2 pairs in the top bare bottom tank (separated by a mesh screen) and 7 discus in the bottom display tank (including 1 pair). All fish are active, vibrant and healthy looking so far.


    To get rid of the leftover feces I use an Eheim quick vac pro daily on the top tank. I only used it once on the bottom tank so far. It sucks up everything without a WC. The only other water that has been changed is collecting the surface water out of the sump with a cup every couple of days. I let the water overflow into the cup so it siphons off the top layer of water. This gets rid of a "bubbly" layer that builds up on top. I guess you could count that as a 1% WC every couple of days.



    I learned a ton during this "trial". It has not been a "magical" or "no work" fix.

    These are a couple of things I learned when adding an algae scrubber to your system:

    - Algae screen has to be taken out and cleaned every 1-2 weeks depending on how much you feed.
    - I keep my KH at 3-4. The Algae consumed all of it and was 0 before I realized. I had to slowly buffer it back up to 3-4. KH has to monitored.
    - Algae needs Phosphate to clean effectively. My tank ran out and I actually have to dose the tank with very small amounts of phosphate to "feed" the algae and keep it working. I now buffer the Phosphate at 1-2 PPM
    - You'll have to top off the tank with RO or similar water to ensure the TDS does not keep rising.
    - You'll need to add minerals to water that are naturally depleted by discus. I add fish specefic vitamins / minerals to water to keep a TDS of around 300-320
    - This is more of my opinion, but if you change less water you'll have to have a large UV sterilizer to help keep the water clean
    - The lights get hot, you'll need to watch your temperature closely
    - A "bubbly" layer of water that I mentioned already has to be siphoned off every few days (but maybe this is just my tank?)


    Depending on the quantity of water changes performed, I think many of the above items will go away. I've just taken it to the extreme for this trial with very limited WC.
    thanks for the insights on the algae scrubber, i have been researching them, have most of the parts, but been holding off, i dont' want the noise of a bubbler in my stand.

  11. #41
    Registered Member Jack L's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
    Location
    PA, USA
    Posts
    1,943

    Default Re: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Luke in Phoenix View Post
    Good to know. I just ordered that book on amazon. Thanks!
    i just read this book, i must of missed the algae scrubber part of it.

  12. #42
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    225
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

    Quote Originally Posted by bluelagoon View Post
    I may have missed it,but did you get the adults to their potential size?They appear rather small in those pics.

    I grew them out in these conditions for 53 days at which all of them were over 2.5" with a few reaching over 3" and very healthy. I'm going to try and get the pairs to raise some more fry.
    All 3 pairs have laid eggs again but they keep eating most of them. I think I need to get a screen...

  13. #43
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    225
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack L View Post
    i just read this book, i must of missed the algae scrubber part of it.
    In the Dynamic Aquaria book he calls it an "ATS system", Algae Turf Scrubber. They were designed much differently then but had the same purpose of growing algae. Over the years, people have found easier and more efficient ways to grow algae. Maybe that's the difference? I haven't received the ecology of the planted aquarium book yet.

  14. #44
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    225
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack L View Post
    thanks for the insights on the algae scrubber, i have been researching them, have most of the parts, but been holding off, i dont' want the noise of a bubbler in my stand.

    I can't hear the bubbles in mine but I can hear the faint hum of the air pump. It's not bad at all though if you get a good air pump.

  15. #45
    Registered Member Luke in Phoenix's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Location
    Gilbert, AZ
    Posts
    225
    Real Name
    Luke

    Default Re: How to grow out large fry experiment - How many water changes needed

    Correct, you could call it a 140 gallon "system" since all tanks are connected.

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Cafepress