Planted Discus Tanks, what worked for me

[scolley]

As I've recently mentioned in other threads, my wife and I are downsizing, so I find myself preparing to tear down, part out, and/or sell my tanks. Since this forum has had a LOT of discussion about what to do - or not to do - with regard to keeping discus in planted tanks, I thought that before I got all the way out of the hobby, I'd try to summarize what worked for me. I fully understand that there will always be a large contingent of discus keepers that believe plants should have nothing to do with discus tanks. But I also know there will also be another group of people that will do it anyway. This post is for those people. And it is a synopsis of what worked for me.

What "worked" for me:

1. Learned planted tanks first. This took me about five years, and multiple tanks.
2. Planted low light, slow growth, warm water plants.
3. Used a sand bottom - no "soil". That meant plants attached to wood, or in shallow, soil filled, pots on the bottom.
4. Never disturbed more than an 1/2" or so of the sand. Over time it stops being just sand, and can be toxic.
5. For the above reason, water change in my planted discus tanks means that, and that only. I do NOT vacuum sand unless I have the time/and suffecient water, to vacuum any give area thoroughly. Once something like a big Python vacuum tube hits the sand, it needs to stay on that spot until the sand is pristine. And this was done only rarely.
6. For that same reason, kept the sand shallow. Never more than 2".
7. If disturbing the sand at any depth was ever necessary, I performed a 95 % w/C quickly.
8. Assumed that once I put a fish in the tank, it's in there for the rest of its life. That has a lot of implications.
9. Only introduce fish pre-quarentined, pre-treated medicated.
10. Recognized that - as a general rule - meds and plants don't mix.
11. If there was no choice but to medicate the tank, I've researched it well before use. Most are bad for plants, and many antibiotics will kill your biofilter.
12. Stocking my tank with hearty discus stock. My successes have been with juvi Blue Turq's, juvi Tefe Green Wilds, and large adults.
13. Stock your tank with discus no smaller than 3". I've been most successful with 3.5" and larger. But I've slowly killed every delicate discus I've put in my tank. I can't say - for sure - if it's because they went into a planted tank. It could be because they were all juveniles going into a tank of adults. Just sharing the observation.
14. I shouldn't have point this out, but since I mastered plants first (number 1 above, most important point), then I KNEW my water. Being a good steward of water, tends to allow the the fish and plants to take care of themselves.
15. Kept ferts and lights on the low side. I could give numbers, but if you are good at keeping plants, I don't need to.
16. Stopped using CO2, or use it only sparingly. Though it is helpful for pH drops if you want to make your discus frisky.
17. Changed water daily, at a rate that equated to 50% every 3 days. I'm certain more would have been better though.
18. Did not overstock. In my 180g, I never had more than 10 adults. I found 6-7 to be a good number in that sized planted tank.
19. I cannot say it mattered, but this has been a major attribute of my husbandry - I kept my hands out of the tank as much as possible. My water changes are automatic, and these days I only trim plants a couple times a year. Same with glass scraping (make that 3-4x a year).
20. Cleared out a large area of just sand, where I can feed the fish, and they can actually find the food when it hits the bottom.
21. Cut the pumps during feeding, keeping the food on the sand - for the most part.
22. Kept a good cleanup crew that does just that - clean up; Zebra Loaches (who also kill any snails!), cory catfish, Amano and cherry shrimp.
23. Have always kept a school of tetras, 25-75. I'll not debate whether this is beneficial. But I've always had one.
24. My discus outlive my tetra schools. So I've had to revisit number 9 above.
25. Have always observed a "siesta" period - a couple of hours every afternoon with no light. Cannot prove it helps, but my tanks are proof it doesn't hurt.
26. I've never grown large discus (not small either, decent sized and healthy, mind you), and I've accepted that as a consequence of not being able to provide the conditions typically necessary to promote that.
27. I've never been able to have fry live beyond free swimming. They become food. While I do belive raising fry in a planted tank is possible, I've not yet done it. Another thing to come to terms with.
28. When aquascaping, know that the more places there are that can obscure your view of fish, the less you will see your fish. Recognize that a fish with a full belly is just as likely to be hanging out behind a plant, as in front of it where you can see it. That's not hiding - hiding is when it is in the plant, or slammed up next to it. Merely behind it is no different that right in front of it, except that you can't see it. It's an aquascaping issue.
29. I feed 4x a day.
30. I feed nothing but bloodworms at present. In the past I've augmented that with Tetra Tropical Granules (Colorbits), and those fish grew out larger than my current crop of wilds. I just can't get the wilds to eat anything else. I've had found beefheart to be a mess when you are not doing a massive w/c afterwards.
31. Started with a pristine, clean environment. Ran bleach and potassium permanganate through it (not at the same time) before adding any life. Put any nets, probes, etc. into the tank during the cleaning process.
32. Dipped every plant in potassium permanganate for 10 seconds before putting in the tank.
33. Used the following order for establishing the tank. Plants need to be planted first, settled in and growing for at least a couple of months. Then added shrimp. Gave them a weeks or two, then added the rest of the CUC except the tetra school. After a few weeks to a month, added the tetra school. Let that stabilize for a month, then added juvi discus.
34. After I added plants the first time - with RARE exception - that was the end of it, unless I tore the tank down and started again. So that's an initail adding of plants, then no more. After that it's just trimming.
35. I don't use my UV. I've got an opinion on that, but suffice to say mine stays off.
36. I use fairly heavy biological filtration.
37. If my external filtration system is shut down for more than an hour (for whatever reason), I drain it completely and flush it - to clear anaerobic bacteria - before hooking it back up to the main tank.
38. I keep my water temp 83.5.
39. Run an Aquaclear filter in the tank for both aeration and the fact that having one (biologically active) on hand comes in handy, such as putting it in a quarantine for new fish.

Thats about it. I understand that I've put this forward because I believe I have been successful at keeping discus in planted tanks. But measurements of success differ for different people. So I welcome you to do a search for "scolley" here. You can read my posts, and make your own determination.

In closing I want to mention the NONE of what I've done would have happened without the help of this forum, and this community. Thank you!

And in particular, I want to thank Al Sabetta, who has an open mind, a kind heart, and deep discus knowledge that he's been happy to share. If I've been successful, a large measure of it goes to Al for his guidance and help.

And for you planted discus tank newbies out there, I hope this helps. For anyone with planted discus experience that is different than mine, please post away. Though I'm not particularly interested in defending my practices, as much as documenting what I think worked for me, for the good of the community.

[pastry]

Steve, so scary how similar we are. Absolutely great post. Very honest. Unfortunate for you on #27 because I got lucky with two awesome pairs. I'll search your old posts for pics.

[Filip]

Thanks for sharing your experience.
I have read both of your journals and from a planters P.O.V. they are a success.

I am little mixed up and would like some more guidance on the sand disturbing and siphoning issue.

I read many posts on SD where experienced members guide others to siphon and disturb sand daily to keep it gunk free. Yet in your guidance and also in Al s video it is advised that we should be extra carefull doing it.

So the question to anybody experienced with discus planted tank is - what should I do?

So far I got half of bottom- empty sand zone for feeding and vacuum, and I disturb that zone daily.
The other half of bottom is a decor and plants zone which I cannot disturb daily, and I disturb and vacuum that every 10-15 days with 90% wc.
Is this dangerous for discus?

[scolley]

Unfortunate for you on #27 because I got lucky with two awesome pairs.

Thanks for the kind words Elliot. And congrats on the pairs! I envy this experience, in the best of ways, of course

I am little mixed up and would like some more guidance on the sand disturbing and siphoning issue.

I read many posts on SD where experienced members guide others to siphon and disturb sand daily to keep it gunk free. Yet in your guidance and also in Al s video it is advised that we should be extra carefull doing it.

Filip - I'll not "defend" my practice, but will try to provide a bit of info...

I believe that you will find the practice of disturbing the sand generally being followed by a very large water change, and likely the lack of a large clean up crew. Either way, it's about a decision on how you are going to deal with detritus. Either you are going to deal with it physically, or biologically. The Amazon does it biologically. On the other hand, I've rarely seen people growing huge discus dealing with detritus any way but physical removal.

However - Anyone that's done item number one on my list knows that with a good CUC, moderate feeding, good plant density and growth, and regular water changes, a planted tank can have water quality that any fish - even a discus - would be delighted to be swimming in. So if you haven't gotten GOOD with planted tanks first, I can only say that I put that as the first item in the list because IMO it's also the most important.

But if you have mastered plants first, then you know the biological way works, and can be a lot less work. The other way can produce big discus. Pick your poison. In your particular instance, I trust that you are changing water more than the 90% every 10-15 days that you mention. As far as the question of cleaning a particular area of sand at that interval, I cannot say. Standard planted practice is to clean sand at least weekly, or not at all. Somewhere between weekly and not-at-all the dangerous anaerobic bacteria establish themselves. And I'm just guessing, but I doubt they could get very well established in 15 days. Though IMO that's pushing it.

[Debow]

I am also interested in this I do 3 wc a week 1/3 of the tank water, I vacuum as much substrate as I an in the time it takes to drain witch is at least 85% of it. Is this time short enough no not allow build of of anaerobic bacteria ? Its a lot of work to clean a 8'x4' section of substrate that 1-2'' every 3 days.

[pamdb33]

Great post! As I'm reading your list I'm nodding my head as it is very similar to what I did growing out my discus in a planted tank.

I did vacuum my sand but I just hover the python above the sand and swirl it to pick up the dirt.

What worked for me....
- started with 3-3.5" fish
- kept sand shallow
- low light plants, no heavy ferts or C02
- clean up crew to take care of extra food / algae
- large WCs if soil was disturbed
- 50-70% WCs every 2-3 days
- Fed BH mix, Blood worms, mysis shrimp, & FD Black worms

It was a lot of work but I have some beautiful discus to show for it. Recently two of my Tangerine Pigeons have paird off and started breeding. Of course the eggs don't last long in the display tank... but its nice to know they are happy and healthy enough to try.

[Filip]

As far as the question of cleaning a particular area of sand at that interval, I cannot say. Standard planted practice is to clean sand at least weekly, or not at all. Somewhere between weekly and not-at-all the dangerous anaerobic bacteria establish themselves. And I'm just guessing, but I doubt they could get very well established in 15 days. Though IMO that's pushing it.

Thanks for the answer Scolley.
I gues i will stick with my everyday through siphoning of the free sand area with my daily WCs, but i wont go deep anymore in the dense plant and decor area, but just the surface half inch sand.
i do this twice a month with 90% WC by removing outside all decor and potted plants .
it gives me chance to sterilize the decor with h2o2 spray bottle while im siphoning this non aproachable areas. But i guess i shouldnt go deep anymore .

The main reason i got cocerned with this is that one of the discus got a little fin tear on the upper fin day after my Complete sand disturbing and vacuum.
So i guess it raise a red flag for me to be suspitious about this practice.

Anyway , great advices and experience. I tend to use them all , but right now i got at least 80 % of your advices inplemented in my planted discus tank , so i guess im on the right track , and still improving an learning .

[Jack L]

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

i'm currently 6 month into a planted grow out. i did this before with nickle sized. it is way more work than BB.

i should have known this with all the reading and such, but i thought Discus coexisted with plants in wild. wasn't until I read up on here more that i realized they don't.

a planted D tank has a very great look, but knowing its contrived has me thinking about the next one, probably wilds, and only plants in sump