Do you selectively breed (and cull) for temperament?

[SlimmSnake]

As I've been learning more about discus, I've been learning that different individual fish can have very different personalities. Some are very shy and timid, some are mellow and easy-going, some are aggressive bullies, and everything in between. Do breeders select for personality as well as appearance/conformation? It seems like discus whose personalities were not on the extreme ends of being too timid or too bold would make the best long-term keepers; discus who get along with other discus and fish with a minimum of stress. Is personality a factor when you decide which to keep and which to cull?

[DonMD]

When I get a spawn of 150 fry, and begin selling them at 2 inches, there is no possibility of selecting for personality.

Anyway I think that idea is a red herring (sorry, just my opinion). My experience is that when discus are healthy and have little or no stress, they eat well, display well, and their "behavior" will seem good to a human. Of course they will want to breed or establish dominance (they are cichlids, after all), so they may argue among themselves.

Once stress, in the form of over-crowding, poor water quality, or pathogens is introduced into their environment, then they will "behave" badly.

The only way I know to improve their behavior is to reduce their stress. -Don

[Rudustin]

When I get a spawn of 150 fry, and begin selling them at 2 inches, there is no possibility of selecting for personality.

Anyway I think that idea is a red herring (sorry, just my opinion). My experience is that when discus are healthy and have little or no stress, they eat well, display well, and their "behavior" will seem good to a human. Of course they will want to breed or establish dominance (they are cichlids, after all), so they may argue among themselves.

Once stress, in the form of over-crowding, poor water quality, or pathogens is introduced into their environment, then they will "behave" badly.

The only way I know to improve their behavior is to reduce their stress. -Don

Don, Great answer! Rufus

[SlimmSnake]

So y'all disagree with the idea that different discus have inherently different personalities?

[Rudustin]

I didn't say that neither did Don!

[Keith Perkins]

"Personalities" are also affected by their tank mates, so a fish that is the alpha in one group often isn't in another. You could cull a whole bunch of nice fish by getting rid of the bully for instance, because generally when you remove that fish from the population another takes it's place. So in more direct answer to your question, no, I've never culled for personality. I doubt you'll find anyone who has.

[MattArmstrong]

I find this question pretty interesting, especially if you broaden the term from "temperament" to just "behavior."

It is certainly true that Discus breeders select for "behavior." Those fish that are willing to eat the foods we give with gusto, breed in our tanks, etc., are the ones that get their genes passed on. We happen to select for "pretty" fish on top of that.

All those runts that fail to develop as well as their peers might have mental problems. Same for those fish that never seem to breed successfully. Some fish may just be messed up in the head.

[John_Nicholson]

And also remember they are controlled by instinct and not intellect They do not really have large brains...LOL. We tend to breed the ones that have the instincts that we like.

-john

[SlimmSnake]

That's true... I HAVE seen individuals that were alpha bullies in one group, become more subdued in a different group. And I guess if an individual is too far to one end of the spectrum or another, it's unlikely to successfully pair. So in a group of juveniles, it sounds like you don't want to pass judgment on them too early, as their situation will totally change depending on who they get sold to and THEN what conditions they're in.

[DonMD]

So y'all disagree with the idea that different discus have inherently different personalities?

My opinion is that trying to apply the word "personality" to a fish is anthropomorphic.

[John_Nicholson]

My opinion is that trying to apply the word "personality" to a fish is anthropomorphic.

Yes.

-john

[rickztahone]

When I get a spawn of 150 fry, and begin selling them at 2 inches, there is no possibility of selecting for personality.

Anyway I think that idea is a red herring (sorry, just my opinion). My experience is that when discus are healthy and have little or no stress, they eat well, display well, and their "behavior" will seem good to a human. Of course they will want to breed or establish dominance (they are cichlids, after all), so they may argue among themselves.

Once stress, in the form of over-crowding, poor water quality, or pathogens is introduced into their environment, then they will "behave" badly.

The only way I know to improve their behavior is to reduce their stress. -Don

That is a great reply and I find myself agreeing with all of it.

[warblad79]

Give it another million years, Hopefully they will evolve and have larger brain. I'm sure they will have personality by then.